Andor Arc 1:One Year Later, Sagroona Teema, and Harvest

Join us for our review of Andor's first arc, episodes One Year Later, Sagroona Teema, and Harvest. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Celebration Return and Andor Overview
• 9:37 Imperial Impersonation and TIE Fighter Theft
• 25:03 Yavin 4 and Rebel Dysfunction
• 39:30 Mon Mothma and Child Marriage Controversy
• 50:47 Sexual Assault in Star Wars

Transcript

Joshua Gilliland: 0:02

Hello everyone. We're back from Star Wars Celebration. We've watched all of Andor and now we're ready to talk about it With me. To discuss the first arc is the Star Wars lawyer? I know your real name. How are you doing tonight?

StarWarsLawyer: 0:19

I'm good you know been busy, but I absolutely loved Andor season two. Andor as a whole is phenomenal.

Joshua Gilliland: 0:32

I'm glad to hear that my mutual feelings. One of my favorite characters and just so well done to see a boots on the ground level story. That's a war story and I'm glad for the spy element. We actually see him dress up and not just look like scruffy dude who out of a bunker.

Joshua Gilliland: 0:58

So that's probably how Han would have done it yeah, again, like we've seen that it's like you can't go to Coruscant or Gorman and look scruffy, you have to look the part of where you're going. Hence James Bond's not always in fatigues. The entire movie Hence Spy they dress up, but the first arc, the three episodes, are one year later sagrona, tima and harvest. We were lucky enough to see one year later at celebration during the end or a panel. What's your thoughts on both the episode and seeing it at Celebration?

StarWarsLawyer: 1:48

It was just a beautiful episode. I mean seeing it at Celebration. We obviously got to see it on a big screen, so it felt like a movie experience, and there's always something different about watching it with other Star Wars fans I don't want to say star wars super fans, but, like you know, at celebration you are here for star wars, right? So seeing people that love it, uh, seeing it with people that love it just as much as you, um, but it was, it was a beautiful episode. Um, the from the, um imperial sort of breakout that cassian does, and the little moment where it's like, uh, between him and uh, what is her name?

Joshua Gilliland: 2:34

um, the, the tech that we never see again uh I don't remember her name, but I do believe strongly that the best place to recruit for the rebellion is from the imperial ranks, with people going, wait, wait. I did not sign up for this part. How did I get here from wanting, you know, order after the clone wars to, uh, you know, to a fascist government, because it's again the united states after world war one?

Joshua Gilliland: 3:12

harding was elected on the return to normalcy that yeah, they didn't want to deal with all the horrible things that they had dealt with during the war and then the influenza that followed. So, like again, they wanted again. There was the roaring 20s and people just didn't want to have to deal with uh, horrible things anymore. Did you see her name? Um and it's okay if the answer is no yeah, I can't find it.

StarWarsLawyer: 3:43

Um, imdb might have it, actually, since they're usually pretty good about that. Yeah, she did naya or nia.

Joshua Gilliland: 3:51

It's n-i-y-a, so maybe naya uh, yes, I have no memory of that. I thought you did a good job and I don't remember if they actually say her name yeah, I don't think they do.

StarWarsLawyer: 4:03

I think that's part of, uh, part of the like the point. But that conversation they have, like if I die tonight, was it worth it? And cast and this makes it worth it right now being here with you in this moment like that was such a powerful moment. You've come home to your, or you're coming home to yourself yeah, all great stuff and again, cool flight suit.

Joshua Gilliland: 4:29

I'm not convinced that pie adventure has a seat belt in it there should be a five point harness the. The seats in the back had seat belts. It doesn't look like cassian's wearing one all the time and I find that strange, like the aversion to handrails. Uh, but I I agree it'll encourage leaning no, no, none of that.

Joshua Gilliland: 4:51

Stand up straight and stay on your toes so you don't fall to your death. Seeing any star wars with 2000 of your closest new best friends makes the experience better. Absolutely Hands down. There's something about watching it Tuesday night after work that I enjoy. I prefer having friends over because, again, there's the ease factor of you just come home and watch it. Maybe you make dinner, maybe you order pizza. Whatever you do, it's there for you. Flip side having the event with others that shared dramatically improves the experience.

StarWarsLawyer: 5:37

Yeah, so I would say it's three. Well, no, I can't say three. So two celebrations that I've been able to see something. So at Celebration Anaheim I got to see the first two episodes of Kenobi, but then I also watched Siege of Mandalore and what you know, watching Kenobi was like watching Andor. You know it's something new, you haven't seen it before. But Siege of Mandalore, that I probably watched at least four times before. You know, since it came out to that, and watching it with a bunch of fans like it hits different.

Joshua Gilliland: 6:12

Oh, you're muted with kenobi at celebration 22. I didn't get tickets for it, but one of the other lawyers and I watched it in my hotel room off the iPad and.

Joshua Gilliland: 6:27

I had the HDMI cable plugged into the TV from the iPad, like we could watch it that way, uh. But yeah, there's again. That was still fun and again I think we had, we had snacks, we had pizza or maybe pizza. Um, it was good stuff, like that in siege of mandalore, with whether it was anaheim or this past one, uh, seeing it in japanese this time was kind of a head switch, but it worked for me, and watching people whose reactions, who hadn't seen it before, was very telling.

Joshua Gilliland: 7:05

Pivoting back to you know the uh, one year later. So we have cassie and impersonating an imperial officer, impersonating military personnel as a crime. Going on to any coast or any military base requires id. You have to be on a list to attend. They scan you. You don't just walk in and pretending to be a military officer is a big no-no. This clearly would put them in the category of spy and there are rules about whether or not a spy can be shot on sight or if they have to be captured and in a military tribunal. It's like those are active questions when it comes to spycraft. We can get thomas to opine on that more as our resident jag officer. Uh, I, I see you have a note about the stolen valor act. Could you share, uh, your thoughts on that?

StarWarsLawyer: 8:06

yeah, so you know the stolen valor act uh talks about basically uh making fraudulent uh representations, about receiving um military decorations or medals or any kind of um, uh signifiers. So it's, I believe it's a federal misdemeanor, um, but it falls under uh, the that I don't know, outside of the admirals, the uh and and the moths with their little tic-tac uh insignias, whether the uniforms signify anything, but from my knowledge of stormtroopers you know they don't have badges or anything that marks it. They'll just have, like you know they'll have that one armor pauldron and that's how you know it's a sergeant or something like that, so him impersonating. You know a pilot, you know that could there could be some kind of insignia on there.

Joshua Gilliland: 9:09

Good catch. We also have the issue of theft of government property. It's a TIE fighter, a souped-up one that seems to have better armor and a hyperdrive and a different power source and a different power source the. It reminded me a lot like firefox, the clint eastwood movie about stealing a russian stealth meg for a deep cut. And granted, that plane did require you had to think russian to fly it, so you couldn't think in English while flying it. Cassian doesn't have that problem. He doesn't have to think in Huttese in order to give it commands, but the controls seem reversed. It's a funky thing to fly and he's a skilled pilot and there's no manual for it. So everything's weird. But it can take a beating, unlike other TIE fighters we've seen. But it's theft of government property. And could you walk us through? Theft of government property.

StarWarsLawyer: 10:13

Yeah, interestingly enough, there is a case going on in federal court in California right now where this guy and it's a 2025 case this guy allegedly stole three humvees as well as a bunch of other, uh, military weaponry, and I was like, well, humvee is not a tie avenger, but you know it's a military vehicle. Um, but it's all theft of government property, which is uh, 18 usc 641, which says anyone who embezzles, steals, pur, purloins or knowingly converts to their use or the use of another or, without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money or something of value of the United States or of any department or agency will be fined or imprisoned. So I would definitely think a TIE Avenger would fall under that category, especially since that seemed to be developmental as well.

Joshua Gilliland: 11:10

It didn't seem like it was, you know, the standard issue of the time, which may add in an additional charge we just had the 30th anniversary of the San Diego Tank rampage, in which an individual stole a running Sherman tank and drove it through town. I remember when it happened going like that's a rampage and you don't see tanks on streets driving around doing the reckless driving thing. But that's one of those things that jumped out to me with how cassing was flying the tie not well initially. Yeah, he had to get the hang of it, and even that was still a bumpy flight.

Joshua Gilliland: 12:04

So did you get a sense? Because this TIE has a different type of power source. It had an energy weapon that we haven't seen on other TIEs and other enhancements that this could have tied to the energy program, and thus the reason you know to get was it calcite from gorman and they that was my initial reaction like this is going to be important somehow. And then we never heard of it again after the first arc yeah, we never heard of it again and obviously it was.

StarWarsLawyer: 12:42

It was uh he, he took it off of Yavin, which we know is where he ends up, yavin for, yeah, and I do wonder, had they, instead of doing two seasons, they did three seasons? Will we have heard a little bit more about that? That, um, but it was uh strange. I mean, uh, it was. It was kind of strange because there was like so much emphasis on in the first season and a lot of other things generally connected, uh, but that one got left by the wayside. So I'm not sure yeah, I was expecting.

Joshua Gilliland: 13:19

I mean I'm okay with it not being connected because me too like they can do a comic. There's something else that they can talk about on why stealing this prototype means that the empire doesn't build another one. Well, the hangar is destroyed I don't think all the data is destroyed, um, or if it is good for them on being thorough yeah but uh, but we don't see it get reversed engineered.

Joshua Gilliland: 13:42

We don't, at least I don't know of that. And if it did get reversed engineered, what was it in? You know like that weapon system would have been a nice package to put on other craft. That said, we have destruction of government property. Are we talking about the hangar, or?

StarWarsLawyer: 14:05

I think, well, I think you have the hangar, you have the droid, um, and I believe one of the ships got destroyed as well. So, yeah, so then you would have that on there as well as, uh, you know a couple uh murder charges that they would slap on cassian, I think. Also think you would throw on there, uh, not, not. I mean yes for cassian, but technically he's an enemy combatant, but for naya you have treason treason, aiding the enemy, uh, aiding insurrection.

Joshua Gilliland: 14:44

There's a variety of charges that that they can be hit with. So um and again, hope she got out yeah and was living her best life.

Joshua Gilliland: 14:56

So let's pivot to the crime against humanity that we start seeing take shape as the main theme of the season the plan to relocate or eliminate gormans and, yes, eliminate. So there's a secret meeting in a eagle's nest type location and you have people from, like, the empire's ministry of truth I know that's not their name, but you have the ISB folks there and you have military folks and they're all doing a brainstorming on how to get this rare mineral from Gorman that will most likely destroy the planet. So they talk about propaganda. Uh, deitra's recommendation is you need an insurgency that will do the wrong thing at the right time, and mining that's going to make the planet unstable, so you have a climate change issue all at once. I I did a tiktok on this.

Joshua Gilliland: 16:00

This is crossing into crimes against humanity because you're trying to eliminate us, an entire people, yeah, and it's not necessarily a war crime yet because it's not war, right, but it could turn into that. So, um, my view is not a war crime yet but could be If there was armed conflict. I think again, this is Thomas territory, but I think that would kick in. But it's definitely a crime against humanity when you decide we're going to eliminate an entire group because we want the planet genocide in the way that international law has uh defined it?

StarWarsLawyer: 16:50

um within the united nations, the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime and genocide. I think it could um fall under a few different ones, because they have sort of five things listed under article two. Um, you know, uh committed with the intent to destroy, and whole or in part, a national, ethical, ethnical, racial or religious group. I think you have at least three of those in there. So, killing members of the group, obviously that happens. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part? Definitely. Um. Imposing metrics intended to prevent births? No, forcibly transferring children of the group to another group, also no. So you know, there you have the intent, you have the mens rea there, and then you have the physical element. Uh, even prior to well, they're setting up the physical element, even prior to Well, they're setting up the physical element prior to the Gorman massacre.

Joshua Gilliland: 17:51

Did you think it was odd Gorman only had 800,000 people on it For an entire planet to have that small of a population, because there are billions of human beings.

StarWarsLawyer: 18:06

I mean, if earth only had 800 000, we would be spread out and there'd be large sections of the planet uninhabited yeah, that that makes me think that at some point, um, you know they couldn't expand more, so their population only grew as much as they could allow. Or it's a more recent, uh, settlement in in the galaxy, you know, maybe it's only been around, for you know the duration of the republic, so that's only a, you know, a thousand years or or something, maybe a little bit back into the Old Republic. But yeah, that is such a low number when we know the Death Star had millions of people on it.

Joshua Gilliland: 18:54

It also makes me wonder is the planet small? I mean, as we were talking about searching for life in the cosmos, we're looking at super earths. Is this something the size of mercury, that that a smaller population would make sense from a carrying capacity so they don't overpopulate the planet? But again, it looked. I don't know if they just have a very rigid society that doesn't grow, uh, but it just. I thought that was just a little weird Because I could have accepted there are three million of them, or again, billion makes more sense as opposed to.

StarWarsLawyer: 19:36

Yeah, we don't get a lot of populations thrown out in Star Wars and I think like when Alderaan gets blown up, it's like a couple billion people. Obviously alderaan is one of the older, more, uh, older civilized planets in in the republic slash empire, so you know. But especially for gorman to be so quote unquote rich yeah, did they purposely.

Joshua Gilliland: 20:03

We're going to keep it small. Yeah, again, just people have growing families, so the idea that people aren't getting married and having kids is a strange concept. Or they're leaving, maybe it's that that too yeah, so we have some rebel knuckleheads. I, I cassie lands on yevon four. We don't know that yet. These rebels have lost their leader, either killed or, I don't think, abandoned. Seems would be weird, but killed makes more sense.

Joshua Gilliland: 20:41

But the maya pay you know, there's, uh, there's the joke that, uh, you know, the 18, 19 year olds in the military, you know, have the officers around as adult supervision and that might be at play here. There's no adults left and all these people have low emotional iq and weapons and short tempers and that's just a very bad situation to be in, because no one can play well together. And so you have the fact that they can't work together. There's false imprisonment of cassian. They then start murdering each other. One is intentional.

StarWarsLawyer: 21:26

Then we get into involuntary manslaughter when they don't know how the weapons on the tie work and uh we, there's a body count with these clowns and the fact that it all starts off because the one guy who was probably rightly called out for hiding during the last battle and his pride couldn't take it because notice, no one else said no, he wasn't doing that. Everybody was just like yeah, and he just couldn't take it. And then he doesn't swing. You know he's not going to leave it to fisticuffs, he just instantly fires. Also going back a little bit before that, how they decide to or maybe it was afterwards, yeah, after that when they decide to settle their differences with rock paper scissors, pretty much yeah and total submission.

Joshua Gilliland: 22:21

It's like what is this weird culty fight they're gonna have?

StarWarsLawyer: 22:25

oh, it's rock paper scissors I thought they were literally about to have a uh, a brawl to the death, and whichever one won was going to be the leader. That's what I thought was going to happen, and then they did, and I'm like what?

Joshua Gilliland: 22:41

Yeah, well, this is. I mean, it wasn't a bro down, but it was. It was weird, it was very weird and like they're all going to starve to death and die because none of them know how to keep themselves alive, none of them understand how to stay safe, collect water, how to avoid the large animals. It just they have a craft ship and they can't play nice. Food's ruined. They don't understand how to live off the land or animals, and cassian opts not to lead them and decides to leave them. Uh, and that's the right call, because it's like you.

StarWarsLawyer: 23:25

You guys are nuts, um also, I believe the uh, the woman that got killed was the only functional pilot, even though she didn't know how to fight the Avengers. So, like your pride literally just cost all their lives like so beyond?

Joshua Gilliland: 23:53

I mean, it's why we have laws. So yeah, it's part of what has a civil society there the we don't settle disputes by shooting each other and the closest thing to a law that they have is rock paper scissors yeah, okay, that's not a lord of the flies yeah, it's not a good system of governance like that's not. You know, the woman in the lake giving out a magical sword better we just talked about that yesterday or yeah, yesterday or two days ago yeah, I mean again.

Joshua Gilliland: 24:24

That would make more sense. He's got the sword. The magic lady gave it to him like I am your king.

StarWarsLawyer: 24:31

I didn't vote for you lady gave it to him. Like I am your king, I didn't vote for you.

Joshua Gilliland: 24:41

Oh, again, that's how it can go wacky, uh, but again like just people, unable to compromise, unable to listen to each other, and the failure to get along is how people end up dead, and they probably all die yeah, I'd rather fight about being right than actually fight to get something done.

Joshua Gilliland: 24:55

Because I have to be in charge. Okay, big guy, when we go to that big pyramid that looks like shelter I don't know why they're all dead and there's no one living here anymore but that would give us a better chance than waiting for the giant murder cat to show up and start killing people did you know it was yapping before?

StarWarsLawyer: 25:21

you know, he took off did you know, which I thought was really cool, because I didn't even think about what planet is he on. And then to pull off and to see those, I was like, oh, it's Yavin.

Joshua Gilliland: 25:35

Star Wars is really good at surprises and while this isn't, like I am, your father type surprise, it's an excellent surprise because it's like how do they figure out Yavin's a place? And apparently Luthan was using it as a drop, and then the rest of the rebellion decides to move in after um, was it datuin datman? Yeah, uh, yeah where goes after her speech. So uh, oh, pronunciations. So let's get to Sagrona Tima. Okay, the entire thing of Mon Mothma effectively using her daughter as collateral to get a loan.

StarWarsLawyer: 26:24

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland: 26:25

Is disturbing on kinds of levels the daughter wanting to get married and these kids are 14 to 16. They definitely under 18, but they're teens and they look like kids. This isn't the 15 year old that looks like a dude. This is a 15 year old that looks like a 15 year old for both of them. And the concept of arranged marriages and underage arranged marriages is gross. Yeah, there's some legal precedent to underage marriage with, like, parental consent. You did some research, which is what you have here. Oh God it just.

StarWarsLawyer: 27:12

Yeah, the overwhelming. The super majority of states in this country have allow parental consent for child marriages, and child marriages are where one one spouse, I guess, is under the age of 18. It was legal in all 50 states up until seven years ago. It just became outlawed in my state two years ago. So it's not some archaic principle that's no longer around.

Joshua Gilliland: 27:52

It's still here. You think this would be a good rallying cry for states to get rid of this garbage and yeah, I said garbage because I don't agree with it, and there are those who argue like a religious reason for it. I just I find it disgusting and this is something that should join a shallow grave in history of something that happened, not something that happens Right.

StarWarsLawyer: 28:19

And while it's not very common, it's still an alarming number. A 2021 study showed from 2000 to 2018, nearly 300,000 minors got married.

Joshua Gilliland: 28:31

2018, nearly 300,000 minors got married. Yeah, I understand if it's like 1813 and life expectancy is 40. Like I could okay Different time, not anymore, not when people live to 100. Like this is just just just no. Yeah, we're not just not something a civil society should be doing.

StarWarsLawyer: 28:59

And the fact that we saw oh go ahead.

Joshua Gilliland: 29:01

No, no, you first.

StarWarsLawyer: 29:15

We saw literally the effects of when you have children making this sort of lifetime commitment, legal commitment, emotional commitment, where Lita breaks down because her groom-to-be doesn't want to hold her hand and now, like for a brief second, she is realizing the effects of it and later on Mana is just like you don't have to do this right, but she has the romantic part of love in her head, of what the romantic part of marriage in her head, not the nitty-gritty day-to-day of what it really means to be in a relationship with someone for the rest of your life the season one episode where she's attending almost like a confirmation class yeah, with you know, with other children from chandrila that that are on course on and they're they're chanting something about like a braid.

Joshua Gilliland: 30:09

I mean I want, from a writer's perspective, going like, hey, let's come up with a brand new culture where they have a braid and it gets cut at the marriage ceremony. Okay, I mean creative, something different. But I appreciate that you have Mon and Vel who do not look happy that you know a teenager is getting married and participating in a tradition that they don't agree with Because people change as they age. And I mean there are those who have the lifetime love that you know they fall in love in high school and they get married and they stay together, but there are those who don't.

StarWarsLawyer: 30:57

Yeah. It does make me wonder and I know we're kind of jumping ahead is what happened to Leta post this arc, Because we hear about it in the next arc but we don't hear about her afterwards. And I wonder, like, how does she feel after her mother leaves the senate and is public enemy number one, basically until luke blows up the death star?

Joshua Gilliland: 31:25

uh, you know yeah, that's a great question and and they leave something you know maybe what's the time difference between bb1 to ahsoka? Is ahsoka nine years okay, so let's just say that she's would have been married for like 12 years by the time of Ahsoka.

StarWarsLawyer: 31:52

Something about that. Yeah, Amon is possibly a grandmother.

Joshua Gilliland: 31:57

Yeah, and she could be late 20s, maybe 30, but let's just say late 20s. Would she have the same views? Would she still be with that guy, because he would look like a dead fish? Yeah, you're here to hold the script, dude, and you know, like he didn't seem into it, it was like I have to do this because it's what's done anyway. That that covers that crosses into episodes two and three with the wedding that takes place. But we also have Teva Tei Kolma, mon's lifelong friend, whose wife's left him, and he's looking vulnerable and because of the vulnerability, he says he's feeling undervalued. And this is opening the door to Mon being extorted in a variety of ways and then he gets disappeared at the end. And I I mean from a moral standpoint no, it's wrong to do that. From a we don't need to all get shot by the empire and stay in a state of tyranny.

StarWarsLawyer: 33:22

I get why yeah, and, and the thing is is, he was all on board with helping Mon when it wasn't affecting him, but that's when it became real to him and then he's just like, well, maybe I should look at some other options.

Joshua Gilliland: 33:40

You know, because he was he, he lost his money, he lost his marriage self-defense change if you're a rebel in the Imperial world and trying to not get disappeared in the middle of the night.

StarWarsLawyer: 33:59

Well, I think it would be not for the Imperials but for the New Republic, probably, Because with the Imperials, that's just another piece of evidence for your treason.

Joshua Gilliland: 34:12

Yeah, as opposed to uh, I did this to protect myself, so I had to silence this guy so he wouldn't be a problem. That's a dark world, uh, to live in. Uh, would the new republic not prosecute people who? I did this for survival? I made a lifelong friend disappear.

Joshua Gilliland: 34:34

Well, Mon didn't but Luthan recognized him as a threat and had him taken care of adopting the tactics of his enemy. So we have Bix go through one of the most horrific storylines in Star Wars history and I mean let's just address it. We have the creepy Imperial hitting on her, then a sexual assault and attempted rape. Self-defense is lethal force is justified in self-defense in cases of rape. Is lethal forces justified in self-defense in cases of rape?

StarWarsLawyer: 35:14

And then following up with the Imperial officer that came out afterwards.

StarWarsLawyer: 35:26

you know I think it continues because her life was still in danger and this was I don't know if you saw this brought up a bunch of discussion about whether sexual assault belongs in star wars and I'm like it's been there since 1983 yeah, like you know, maybe if you're 12, you don't get what's going on with java and leia, but honestly, if you're over the age of 18, let alone just growing up today, with law and order, law and order, svu being on for 25 years and shows like ncis and csi and criminal, they all address it.

Joshua Gilliland: 36:07

It's been everywhere yeah, it's a, it's dark I but it's real it's real. I don't have a problem with age-appropriate star wars because we can go from the spectrum of young jedi adventure adventures made for five-year-olds to to andor. That's a wide universe of content and different viewers. Yep, now that are the you know gen xers watching and are going to be watching young jedi adventures. Most likely, especially if they have kids, they're going to be watching them uh, do I want a six-year-old watching?

Joshua Gilliland: 36:52

and or no, no, no, I think this is more teen appropriate. You know, uh, pg-13 type type material.

StarWarsLawyer: 37:03

Uh yeah, hard pg, most likely pg-13 yeah, your TV 14 age range, and that's OK. Star Wars has layers for a reason, you know, the books are generally darker than the things we see in the visual media, because they can do that. You know, it's this kind of like the. The stereotype for twi'leks was that they were all exotic dancers. Like it is a. It is a reality in our world that sex workers get abused, get sexually assaulted, get raped. So you know. And then not even talking about the problem that, uh, the military has, uh, with sexual assault, and the imperial officer is, you know, a military official, and let alone when an invading force, a conquering force, an oppressive force has power over a population and can get away with whatever they want, this will definitely happen.

Joshua Gilliland: 38:18

Oh, it's Imperial Japan what they did in China and Korea during World War II, and you know the Nazi Germany was no stranger to that level of cruelty as well. And what the russians did to the germans after you know, conquering berlin, I mean, there's some dark, dark stuff in history. All of that aside, like this is the age-appropriate star wars that you want, you know like 14 and up and it's.

Joshua Gilliland: 38:55

I'm fine covering the topic, uh, even though I did feel super creepy and horrible and didn't want to see it again. Uh, that said, yeah, because we have child marriage and then then assault and yeah, I mean that's just. And then assault and it's just, I mean it's just. You know, it makes seeing genocide of an entire planet go okay.

StarWarsLawyer: 39:18

Right and I think it's. People are like, well, I don't want to see it. I was like it's kind of the point, you don't want to see it. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable, If you. If it doesn't make you uncomfortable, that calls for some serious self-reflection.

Joshua Gilliland: 39:31

Now, why didn't this freak you out?

StarWarsLawyer: 39:33

Yeah.

Joshua Gilliland: 39:35

All right, going from that, we have very effective, interesting bad guys with Deidre and Cyril the fact that Deidre's a good girlfriend that rips into Deedee in one of the most effective dinner party ever seen. And these are the bad guys. And you find them compelling that you have Cyril just getting run over by his mom, who's had a rough life with her. The ISB girlfriend who's tortured people for a living. She's planning a crime against humanity and is going to go up against, you know, the scary mother-in-law and takes her down in the most brutal, effective way possible mhm, it does.

StarWarsLawyer: 40:39

I'm going and Cyril just retreating to the bedroom and just laying flat out on the bed.

Joshua Gilliland: 40:48

Uh, you know the actor improvised that. That was just perfect. I mean likevised that that was just Perfect. Perfect, I mean, like the body position, it was just like, oh yeah, like they've just how do you handle that? Brilliantly done. But what Deidre outlines as a contract, not optional, so it's a unilateral contract of this is how things are going to be and you're going to stop torturing us.

StarWarsLawyer: 41:18

It sounds like an extreme version of a custody agreement. You have these benchmarks you will hit and then you will be able to get some visitation. That's essentially what it is. That's what I thought of wow, yeah, uh which definitely doesn't play into, you know, cyril, having mother issues, mommy issues and going from ed to mean it's a fascinating relationship because it's.

Joshua Gilliland: 41:57

It's her getting hit in the head with a brick and nearly killed by an angry mob, where she gives him a chance afterwards and, uh, I mean it goes to the issue of getting a concussion and meeting a guy which can result in marriage in Padme's case. Don't fall out of an aircraft and get married the next day.

StarWarsLawyer: 42:24

Yes.

Joshua Gilliland: 42:26

But this seems it's a complex relationship and it's fascinating that they did this with the villains and they're not just like the mustache-twirling, you know, evil commandant type. It's something far more thoughtful.

StarWarsLawyer: 42:49

I got uncomfortable every time I saw them together on screen at any point in the series. I just uh, it just made my skin crawl I.

Joshua Gilliland: 42:59

I didn't feel uncomfortable because here are two introverts that probably haven't had a healthy relationship before and I think they're just doing their best now. When we get to the later episodes, there are things that happen that are not okay, but let's not get there yet. But it is fascinating that Deidre lays down the rules and they're not goshable. Don't come to my house and drizzle fondue across the table. Yeah, there's been a lot of commentary on it doesn't make sense for Deidre to have been in an imperial kinder block, because at this point the Empire is only 16 years old and she's got to be at least 30 and being in her kinder block doesn't mean from birth like she could have been 15 when she went in and yeah and and also just and I I think about tarkarkin in A New Hope, where he talks about the dissolving of the like the last message of the Republic is gone.

StarWarsLawyer: 44:19

It's like I feel like Detro, being so gung-ho about the Empire, would not recognize the Republic as being, you know, anything worth mentioning being, you know anything worth mentioning right, you know I was raised by the empire. I, you know I am the Imperial, you know, security bureau captain or lieutenant or whatever her rank is now. So that that's how I took it. She's clearly older than 19. And, like you said she, you know she could have been raised in it as a kid. But like she said she, you know she could have been raising it as a kid, but, like she said, she was an orphan. When did she become an orphan? Right? And we know, at least with the first order, uh, that they weren't, uh, that they conditioned their people. I wouldn't be surprised if you know they had some semblance of that, some sort of education, training, uh programming, that that they gave uh orphans under their care yeah, all plausible.

Joshua Gilliland: 45:22

but yeah, it's being raised in an imperial kinder block does not mean since age two, right, and I mean she would have been old enough. Both of them would have been old enough to have been kids during the Clone Wars and that probably wasn't fun. Now I thought, because Deidre didn't want the Gorman project, that she could have been from there. That lead was never followed up or talked about, so I think she's from someplace else, which makes me wonder if she realized. Well, the plan for Gorman was a bad idea and she didn't want to be a part of it.

StarWarsLawyer: 46:03

Yeah, it could have been. I felt it was two things One, she just felt like it was beneath her, and then she also wanted to get back to Axis, because she had just been under a situation where you had a local population rise up and she almost died. So to oversee another one or participate in another one she may not have been too keen on, like, let me focus on my pet project, axis. Where is he? Who is he? I'm going to find him. Let me do that. I want to do that.

Joshua Gilliland: 46:40

I would like to avoid angry mobs in the future, so it's not going to be my career path. It'd be like realizing you know what? I don't want to be a litigator. I really like transactional work.

StarWarsLawyer: 46:56

now I'm going to do trademark applications like that, yeah, after handling, like the trial of the decade yeah, it's just like.

Joshua Gilliland: 47:02

Nope, I hated this, like don't want to be part of that world anymore, makes sense. You can see that happening and that, other than some questions about the wedding of where is their underage drinking like? Because we have all these teens running around on what should be a like a high school party, instead it's somebody's wedding. Is you know when we have moms getting sloshed is? Is there underage drinking at this thing?

StarWarsLawyer: 47:39

I mean, is it a religious ceremony? We know it's a deeply cultural thing, but is there a religious to it? Because that's exceptions, that that's an exception to our national minimum legal drinking at uh age. Um, I think there's also familial consent in in this purpose as well. So I think it might be a combination of those, those things. Or you know, maybe their legal age of drinking is 14 on tendril, since they can get married at 16.

Joshua Gilliland: 48:11

yeah, I could buy that because, uh, kids don't get sloshed on communion wine. I mean, I'm sure it's possible, but you know, having the symbol of wine, you know, after your wafer or bread, whatever the service is doing like that's, that's different, as opposed to you're toasting and throwing down shots with mom um that just seems way problematic. My two cents, um. Here's something I found super interesting the actress who plays. Why am I blanking on her name?

StarWarsLawyer: 49:01

Vel's lover Cinta.

Joshua Gilliland: 49:03

Cinta. She's also in Doctor who. She's the current companion. Oh, so yeah, because I had that real, because I had had again, hadn't watched season one in a while and in re-watching this and currently watching doctor, who was like wait a minute, same actress I know that face. Yeah, it's like time. So how cool for her. You know you get the actors who are in multiple big sci-fi. You know tent poles uh it's like you could be signing autographs for the next 30 years.

StarWarsLawyer: 49:37

Yeah at a right. Just just get on one of the star trek uh spinoffs and and hit the trifecta yeah, it's uh, and there are those who've done it.

Joshua Gilliland: 49:49

Uh, throw in a marvel one, because there are those who've done that. I mean, you have, you know, david tennant, that's done. Marvel doctor, who, obviously. And star wars, uh, there are others who, uh, you have george takai, who's done voice work and the clone wars, in addition to all the star trek work, and avatar the the Last Airbender.

Joshua Gilliland: 50:14

The Gremlins animated series. He's one of the lead Gremlins, so there are those who are, again, that's their career, but it's seeing people who are just checking the boxes. It's like give Tenet a Star Trek role now and box is checked Right. So, yeah, I just I think that was really cool, so, but it's good stuff. So that's the first arc. We have three more to go and look forward to being able to discuss this more and, uh, look forward to being able to discuss this more.

StarWarsLawyer: 50:57

So when oh yeah, any closing thoughts about you know our again, we bumped into each other twice in japan yeah that those are random odds, like impossible odds, and we did it twice yeah, I ran into nearly everybody that I knew that was going to be there, except for one person, and I was there for a day and a half that's very important.

Joshua Gilliland: 51:24

Yeah, it's food line and we were going by the um the hot toys.

StarWarsLawyer: 51:29

Is that what it?

Joshua Gilliland: 51:29

was the hot toys that was too busy to go in. Yeah, you know, there were booths I never bothered to go into because it was just too crazy lines were a menace at this celebration.

StarWarsLawyer: 51:45

It's always something that's a menace at celebration. This one was lines, whether it was lines for food, lines for booths, lines for panels. Uh, it was a bit ridiculous last celebration. It was, uh, the hallway to get to the different, like the main hallway where, like, you enter the uh convention center and you're trying to get food or you're trying to go to a panel or to the halls where all the booths and things, where it was just it was that's where they put the giant tie fighter and like the 18. So it was just, it was just uh, um, what, what are our cattle in when you're, you know, like all leading them to slaughter? That's what.

Joshua Gilliland: 52:26

That's what we were all in yeah, this was, um, I know to have have watering snacks, yeah, and like overall positive experience, but there were some bumpy elements, uh, but we look ahead. So, chris, so star wars lawyer, thank you and no problem and uh, we'll be talking more and we have three more arcs to hit. So everyone, thanks for tuning in, stay tuned for more adventures and, wherever you are, stay safe, stay healthy and stay geeky.