Review of Andor Arc 4: “Make It Stop”, “Who Else Knows?”, and “Jedha, Kyber, Erso”

Review of the final story arc of Andor, season 2, episodes “Make It Stop”, “Who Else Knows?”, and “Jedha, Kyber, Erso”.

Chapters

• 0:00 Season 2 Arc 4 Introduction
• 1:52 Computer Trespass and Lonnie's Fate
• 5:45 Deidre's Unauthorized Raid
• 12:37 Luthen's Backstory and Flashbacks
• 19:12 Deidre's Interrogation and Consequences
• 28:57 Penta Gas's Manifesto and Ethics
• 39:12 Bridging to Rogue One and Final Moments
• 52:32 Reflections on Andor's Impact

Transcript

Joshua Gilliland: 0:02

Good evening or good day. My name is Joshua Gilliland. I'm one of the founding attorneys of the Legal Geeks. This is our final broadcast on season two, arc four of Andor. With me for this adventure is retired New York State Judge Matthew Shrino and Stephen Tollefield. Gentlemen, how are you each doing? Starting with your honor, I am fine.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 0:34

Thank you very much, Josh Excellent.

Stephen Tollafield: 0:37

Stephen, how about you? Good thanks, Excited to bring it on home. Yes, One of the best series ever as far as I'm concerned. One of the best series ever as far as I'm concerned and unlike some series, we don't have that question, you know.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 0:49

Will there be a season three?

Joshua Gilliland: 0:51

right, season three is the Rogue One movie yeah, and just the gauntlets thrown down for keep writing good stuff next we've. You know the joke is, andor ruined Star Wars by being good and I just set a really high bar for everyone going forward. So you know, the bar is set. Take it from here, all you wonderful creative types. So this arc includes Make it Stop who Else Knows. And Jedha Khyber Erso.

Joshua Gilliland: 1:22

All right, so it's a year after the Gorman Massacre. Nodes make it stop who else nodes. Anjetta Kyber Urso. All right, so it's a year after the Gorman Massacre. We have Yavin really up and running. And here we are on how Rogue One happens. Effectively, this story takes place probably over a couple days, maybe a day, uh, maybe a day. And uh, so make it stop is supervisor lonnie young wants out and he's like hey, I you know he had uh dead ramiros, uh code cylinder and was able to log in for over three hours. And that raises some big info issues about unauthorized computer access. Your Honor, can you talk to us about computer trespass, at least the New York version of it?

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 2:12

Yes, in New York Lonnie would have been guilty of computer trespass, which is a Class E felony in New York. A person is guilty of computer trespass under Section 156.10 of our penal law when he or she knowingly uses causes to be used or accesses a computer, computer service or computer network without authorization. And although he did have imperial authorization to enter imperial networks, deidre had different access levels than he did and he was accessing parts of the computer that he did not have access to. He probably also would have been guilty of unauthorized use of a computer, which is a misdemeanor under 156.05 of the New York Penal Law. A person is guilty of unauthorized use of a computer when he or she knowingly uses, causes to be used or accesses a computer, computer service or computer network without authorization. And again, although he had some access to the network, he didn't have all the same levels that Deidre did, and that would bring us to the Federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. And Stephen, those were your notes, so you could take it from there.

Stephen Tollafield: 3:24

Yeah, there's federal dimensions too. Lots of states like New York have hacking and cybercrime statutes, but the federal law includes a section that's specific to espionage that if you access a computer that has sensitive federal data on it and take that data and give it to someone who's unauthorized to have it, that is a specific violation of the crime, among other things in the CFAA. But if you get convicted of that espionage violation with any other violation, it's up to 20 years in prison because of that espionage. It's not really an enhancement, it's like a separate crime. But yeah, and similarly, as you pointed out, judge, it's not just accessing a computer system, it can be exceeding your authorized access, not just the physical act of putting your fingers on a keyboard that doesn't belong to you.

Joshua Gilliland: 4:24

So similar in that way and california has an interesting wrinkle on it because it'd actually be a form of identity theft because he logged, you know, lonnie logs in as miro and so that would raise this like false impersonation element of it, uh, as well.

Joshua Gilliland: 4:43

And so with california that's actually one of the elements that we have for for an identity theft, because he's logged in as her. So it's a all kinds of fun wrinkles on how different states or the federal government would, uh, you know, prosecute this. But this highlights, you know, what the Force wills, because without Deidre being this pack rat going after all this information and then Lonnie logging in and finding out what she knows, that's how the Rebellion ultimately learns about the Death Star and kicks off everything that we will see in the Skywalker saga, or at least the original Star Wars as we enjoy it. So without Miro being obsessed about finding access, none of the original trilogy would have happened. So it's as the force wills it and I just I find that hysterical on on how we get here yeah, I haven't thought about it that way, but she's the loose lip that sinks the entire empire pretty much.

Joshua Gilliland: 5:58

That's amazing yeah, without her, luke would have stayed on tatooine. So you're like there would have been because Luke would have stayed on Tatooine. So you know like there would have been because the Rebellion would have never found out about the Death Star until it was too late and maybe it would have happened in some other way. But you know, the entire point of what happens in Rogue One has to have these events take place, which means without her being obsessed. She's the causation.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 6:31

And with a bit of a spoiler alert to later on in the arc, I'm sure that when she's rescued from the holding cell for which she's in by the rebellion, her defense lawyer might be able to raise all of these mitigating factors to try to get her war crimes case dismissed. But we'll leave that for future moot courts probably.

Joshua Gilliland: 6:55

Yes, yes, one day at a time, but we have her again deciding to raid Luthan's art store and this gets you know, I'm a civil litigator Before that let's discuss the witness protection program that Luthan puts Lonnie into.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 7:19

Yes yes, permanent witness protection.

Joshua Gilliland: 7:24

Yeah, this is dark because, your Honor, you raised it. Why don't you take it? And then I want to share some of my thoughts on this.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 7:32

As soon as Lonnie spills the beans, so to speak, as to what he found out, Luthan's answer to make sure that he tells no one else or doesn't become a weak link is to shoot him at point blank range and kill him, and he would clearly be guilty of, in New York, common law murder, which is murder in the second degree because he did willfully cause the death of another person. Arguably, if the ISB is a police force, that could be murder in the first degree in New York, because the murder of a law enforcement officer would be murder in the first degree in New York.

Joshua Gilliland: 8:16

I'm surprised Luthan didn't have an extraction plan and kind of disappointed in him Like he knew this day was coming. Like when it comes time to, we're going to eventually have to bail. So how do we get everybody out? And on one level it would be super lazy if the plan was just to kill the guy who's been a useful informant. That's bad for morale. That's not a good way to recruit more people is if you just off people. It's one thing to have to make a sacrifice of a team in order to not blow a deep cover operative, but to have no extraction plan, uh is well, that's just weird. And I don't know if that means that they're just running out of resources, that they knew that they wouldn't be able to get everybody out, uh.

Stephen Tollafield: 9:16

But or maybe they didn't. Maybe the idea of trying to secure his wife and child was just too much of a complication because they could extract him and leave them behind. But then they are hostages. To get him, to draw him back out, or trying to gather them and take them with him is kind of risky proposition too.

Joshua Gilliland: 9:38

But Luthan is really good at preparing, so why not have a plan for that? Or you know, lani, as the ISP agent you know, you know, have the wife go, all right. So you're gonna go visit, you know, your parents on planet x or whatever, and that's when I make the move to get out of here and we rendezvous someplace else. Uh, but that wouldn't mean the wife knowing, which again is another factor to this, but she would still be a loose end, you know, for for escaping.

Stephen Tollafield: 10:12

So it's just not a great situation?

Joshua Gilliland: 10:16

no, no it just it just bothered me because, you know, thinking back to every James Bond type movie, it's like you have a plan to get out the people that that have helped you, because if you're trying to build a rebellion, if you're just bumping off the people that are helping you, that just seems to not be great. I mean it highlights he did have to adapt the plans of his enemy but still, man like it just anyway. It anyway just just seems bad for morale yes, the whole.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 10:50

You know the. The weakest part that I that I really felt in this arc was that lack of a of an escape plan. You know, to to to when the gig was up and they kind of saw it happening at that point. Um, not even to have his, his art gallery, like you know, rigged to blow up. Uh, you know he was pouring acid to destroy uh computer files and stuff. It seemed a lot less than than he would have planned.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 11:21

Uh, his ship, which we all grew to love, you know, to see the Empire aboard it and like, looking through it, you know, I would have thought that he would have really had every piece of that you know detonated and blown up and taken a bunch of Empire Imperial people to to to with them. And the only thing I can come up with is maybe he wanted to lull the Empire into a bit of a false sense of security in that we got them and that's all that there is to this particular big, you know, rebellion cell and and we can relax a little bit and and that would give the other people the chance to do something big, but that that was the best I could come up with yeah, I, yeah, you think you would have a detonator, you know again a thermal detonator, and it's like all right and bye-bye, like push the button and that baby blows, that's it, we're done.

Joshua Gilliland: 12:20

Next, that's yeah, I mean I. That's the only thing that I thought was weird, because he is very prepared and having the ability to go like, yeah, this is over, it's gonna blow up now, um, so we have deidre decide to launch a raid for a mission that she's not on, this smacks of overreach. I mean, it's one thing to be the super dedicated employee and you're putting in extra time, but when it's not in your lane and you blow an operation, that's, you know, for the people that have the doctrine of fear that we make people disappear, that seems to be a weird position for her to be in, like because it's it's a problem uh, she did it to memorialize cyril.

Stephen Tollafield: 13:13

In honor of cyril, she's gonna go in guns blazing without under the radar yeah it.

Joshua Gilliland: 13:19

Just she learned the wrong lesson from that relationship of. So this is what got my boyfriend into this bad, bad life choice. Luckily we end up together, but because of my life choices, he also ends up dead. Why? Why invest more? Like you know, nobody learns the lesson of like, well, I'm going to go into a different line of work or hey, I want to go get stationed here and not be part of this anymore. No, she's obsessed and that ultimately leads to the destruction of the Death Star. So, whoops. But it's a brilliantly acted scene. Like they, you know the, the actors just swimming for the fences. Uh, you know, one of you made made note of the great quote only two pieces of questionable providence in this gallery. Any guesses? Uh, uh. Then one of you also raised the issue was was deitra's execution of the arrest negligence, malfeasance or treasonable? Uh, because she allows, you know, evidence to get destroyed. Who, who would like to bring that on?

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 14:40

you know, she, she, she. Clearly you capture and secure the scene before you do anything else. And she gave him time to destroy evidence and to you know what he thought was accomplished, killing himself that he couldn't be used to test. So you know, if you're going to go off book and try a mission, you got to really do it well and she butchered it and that's. You know. The reason that her fate is what it is in the show ultimately is because the way she handled this botched operation surprised they just didn't shoot her, because that's now, the empire's not exactly shy in shooting those who, who screw up.

Joshua Gilliland: 15:32

So, uh, but they also I mean star wars, rebels gets into this with the way that the empire set itself up for failure by having officers compete with each other and, uh, again in in rebels. That's what leads to commander sato's demise. Uh, but it really does. You know, take out an imperial admiral and throw and throw thrawn's plans into um disarray, uh, but again, like it was something the nazis did as well of, like they don't play well together and they set this competition factor, which again sounds very much rule of two for getting people to compete and fight, but it's not good for morale.

Joshua Gilliland: 16:19

Luthen's suicide attempt Well, suicide, we don't like that. But you do think she, he would have had like the, the tooth or something that could have been the, the quick exit. Uh, it would illuminate a giant storytelling, uh opportunity, but uh, you think there would have been. He would have had a better exit plan for himself. Not to be critical of the story because it's still brilliantly done, but again, these are very prepared people who now we're looking like they weren't ready for this contingency.

Joshua Gilliland: 16:57

And that's just kind of weird for them. So we have the entire operation in the hospital, you know, breaking in impersonating a nurse and your Honor. There's a lot of New York code cited here.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 17:39

So I have a mercy killing of him of criminal trespass in the first degree, because not only did she trespass in a hospital without cause to be there or authority to be in various parts of that building, she did possess firearms at various times and she did also use incendiary devices, so that would have bumped it up to the felony level of trespass. She also would have been guilty of criminal impersonation in the second degree to to make sure that they thought that she was a a member of the staff at the hospital so that she was able to get access to parts of the hospital. That she was not, that she did not have any authority to go there. She also took whether it's it's kidnapping or not, I think it's simply the fact that she kind of did take ET's grandmother without her authority or permission to take Fiazza. So I think she might have been guilty of kidnapping in the second degree for abducting of another person.

Stephen Tollafield: 19:04

Although she seems like she's having the time of her life.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 19:07

She had a great time she was singing and humming, you know, no harm came to her. Uh, you know, in the realm of things I can certainly see a jury acquitting her of that charge it's a victimless crime yeah, but but yeah, she was a great.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 19:27

You know there was a lot of heavy things going on as she was gaining access and it really did lighten it a bit. I love that they used you know, that particular alien. You know, she, she, she was a great little character there. And then she does get to Luther and she is able to kill Luther so that he would not be able to be used by the empire. They are currently.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 20:24

They literally yesterday just passed the legislature and it's on now the desk of the governor in New York the New York Medical Aid in Dying Act, which is similar to the Oregon Death with Dignity Act, which would allow for mercy killings in certain situations. The Catholic Church in New York is very much against it and has been fighting this bill for years, but there is a pretty good chance that New York will be passing this bill that was just passed yesterday by the New York State Senate and is now on the desk of New York Governor, kathy Hochul, who has to decide whether or not she's going to sign it or veto it and would allow, you know, a assistance, basically an assisted suicide type of bill.

Stephen Tollafield: 21:02

Interesting. California's had the End of Life Option Act for about almost 10 years now, as 2016 was passed, but it's certainly something where the person who's terminally ill has to make like two oral requests and a written request. There has to be sort of no coercion and it's a prescription for the person to end their own life.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 21:24

You can't like if someone's like in a coma, you can't have someone like, just murder them and clearly Luther was in no position to, although I think it would have been very clear that that would have been his desire. He was certainly not able to express that desire, that desire at that time to, to, to, to take his, his own life. But he, you know, he, he, he tried to take his life to begin with but he could have, you know, arguably changed his mind. But you know, she, she was successful and, and you know, in in a very tough situation thing to pull off. I mean, even so, that when you know, when they first, when the empire was first looking to see how it was done, you know they thought it was multiple people because you know they could not phantom how just one person would be able to pull this off by themselves.

Stephen Tollafield: 22:21

I think it was terrifying. She was like Darth Vader, the end of Rogue One. She was just like relentless and like Her facial expressions.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 22:31

You know there was just such a blank her. Her eyes told a story, but but her face was blank and it just. You know she's a relatively new uh actor and and she certainly uh will have many roles after this. She played an incredible character throughout the series and this whole encounter was incredible, I thought.

Joshua Gilliland: 22:59

Going back to the California law, it has to be something terminal, like so it. You know it can't be. I'm depressed. Like it has to be a terminal illness that there's no recovery from and the doctor's still not the one pulling the trigger for it so he could recover from.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 23:37

And the New York bill is a significant likelihood of death within six months, so it's also a terminal death with dignity act.

Joshua Gilliland: 23:47

But that raises the issue that we've seen with this before of operational security. Like this world of spycraft is not functioning under anything we would see as legal, because duress is not a reason to kill someone like it's. That's not justification or saying we have to keep the secret. So i'm'm going to start killing friends, which is a theme throughout Rogue One and all of Andor, with different people getting put down in order for operational security. So the rebellion survives. From a spy story perspective, that's the right call for them.

Stephen Tollafield: 24:28

From a legal perspective, it's not defendable uh, I'm gonna put in my metal medical directive that if I'm ever at the business end of a interrogation droid, feel free to off me.

Joshua Gilliland: 24:40

Just pull the plug oh, boy, uh, that is. That's a lot to unpack there, man. Um, but luckily we don't have those yet. So, uh, I don't know if something in silicon valley is being developed as we speak, but uh, you know those, those advanced robotics that look like scary dogs that you know, maybe, again you know, maybe there's some engineer who watches this and go like I could make that, and if that's your reaction, that's not a good reaction of I can make something terrifying.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 25:21

Interestingly enough, those dogs that you speak of, which are made by Boston Dynamics. They entered, and the company entered America's Got Talent last night and it had five of those dogs doing a dance routine. One of them broke down in the middle of the dance routine, but the other four completed the dance routine but it is one of the cutest things you've ever seen. So if you want Google, boston Dynamics, america's Got Talent and you can be entertained by those dogs doing a dance routine.

Joshua Gilliland: 25:54

Yeah, it's what. When you see a droid builder with R2-D2 at a con, little children will come up and want to hug that R2 unit. I've seen ladies kiss the R2 unit. People feel very happy when they see an r2d2 rolling in. Sure, it's remote control, but people naturally think that's one of the good guys.

Joshua Gilliland: 26:20

The murder robot is terrifying and let's not normalize the murder robot by making it do a dance routine. That's going to go like hey, it's all cool, these, these terrifying things, can uh put on dinner in a show for you. Now we do get flashbacks which looks like they go to naboo and one of their flashbacks, and we get to see uh luthan, uh, just having a. His name is spelled the other direction, so uh, but we do see the beginning of them playing spy and uh. So we have, uh, you know like he, he doesn't follow uh lawful orders. Uh, well, let's just say he doesn't follow orders. Whether or not they they're lawful is a question of.

Joshua Gilliland: 27:11

An illegal order is illegal on its face is what case law says. And that goes back to, like Aaron Burr prosecution of, like it's clearly looks illegal Case law talks about. Case law talks about then, after World War II, I think it might have been the late 40s, into the 1950s, I don't remember for sure, but it's someplace in the European theater and the higher ranking officer, they have an individual who's face down on the ground and the subordinate military personnel is told to shoot the person in the back of the head. That person does so and then does the I was just following orders defense, and that doesn't fly, because shooting someone who's face down in the back is, on its face, an illegal order and it's repugnant to law to have to follow an illegal order. So was what Luthan was getting? Were those illegal orders? Because it looks like he's in the Imperial infantry doing his thing. It's like he's in the Imperial infantry doing his thing. Your Honor, you have experience in military law. What's your view on Sergeant Luthan's failure to follow orders?

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 28:43

Yeah, he was an NCO or sergeant or a non-commissioned officer. He also was drinking and it was clearly suffering from being shell-shocked because he kept saying to himself make it stop, make it stop, as the shelling was continuing. But drinking while on duty and during an active mission would have violated various military regulations. When he was ordered to to straff the ridge, it seems like that was probably the killing of civilians that were defenseless and that probably would have been an illegal order on its on its face. And he at that point finds the little girl who becomes Claire and he then takes off with her, leaving the battle, leaving his fellow troops he has the troop transport so he would be leaving them there. So that would have violated various military rules, stealing property, leaving his fellow troops behind. So even though he did not necessarily have to follow the order to shoot the unarmed civilians, he's still not allowed to take the ship and the girl and go home.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 30:04

You then see him kind of raising the girl, which would raise various guardianship issues.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 30:12

You know, clearly there was never any kind of formal order of guardianship.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 30:15

He just kind of became her father figure and it then kind of ends with one of the first terrorist strikes, at least from the imperial point of view, terrorist strike on the planet Naboo, which makes a lot of sense in as much as the emperor, senator Palpatine, was from that planet. So that would have been sending a to press the button to blow up the bridge. That would raise various arguments as to delinquency and other poor guardianship skills. But he wants to see if she can do it and when he sees that she can do it, he does do it himself so that she doesn't have to have the guilt of those people on her head Later in life. I'm sure she had the guilt of various other jobs that he gave her, but had the guilt of various other jobs that he gave her. But you know, you clearly saw why they meant so much to each other because they've spent a lot of time together and you know it did kind of round out the picture a lot better, I think, as to their relationship.

Joshua Gilliland: 31:49

Well said, we do end this episode With Deidre getting arrested, and Kind of rightfully so. We then begin the next episode who else knows with Deidre getting Interrogated, which does have Echoes from season One, because that's how she met Cyril he was in that room, and now it's her turn, uh, to be the one getting questioned. And you know, we have, um, just some no-nos and an interrogation, like you're not supposed to touch the suspect and I don't know how many. How many of those lines or the physical behavior was was, um, improvised, I, I, you know, like the, I think the finger to the head might have been improvised because she looked so surprised, uh, by that, or it was just really good direction and we just have really good actors, uh, at play, uh. But let's talk about the interrogation and which one of you would like to take deidre's interrogation well, I mean, I guess she's um.

Stephen Tollafield: 33:07

She's definitely um under, definitely under a pretty analogous situation, as you said, with what Cyril went through this time, though it's interesting to me how she has already maybe played through the accusations in her head by the time they get to her, because she acknowledges that she got the email. She should have said something. She has like responses to all the questions she's being asked, but again she doesn't have a lawyer, which would be her um right in an interrogation. She shouldn't have to be doing that by herself. Um, although I guess you know the right to representation if you're accused of treason, I don't know, judge, I don't know if that that's sort of if you're in some sort of an espionage situation, if you have similar constitutional rights were all eventually given lawyers.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 34:15

So the answer is yes, you are entitled, but it's not necessarily done right away, as it would have been in the civilian aspect, because there are security concerns and those would be exhausted before. But eventually you would get the right to have an attorney.

Stephen Tollafield: 34:31

Right, and if you're on US soil, soil, it's pretty clear that you have attorneys which is why they kept them in guantanamo exactly, or they, you know they interrogate them in, you know, another country altogether yeah, so yeah, krennic, and again it's just.

Joshua Gilliland: 34:49

Krennic is such a cool character, it's neat that we see him again and like, within 24 hours he's on the receiving end of. You know, like Vader choking him and how they treat people. This is again when your underlying ideology is the doctrine of fear. This is not a good work environment for anybody because admirals get force, choked and killed on a regular basis. So you know she does this plan without authorization and killed on a regular basis. So you know she does this plan without authorization. She finds out about the Death Star. You know it's bad when Trying to like figure out the historical comparison to this. You know, like what would have been like Oppenheimer showing up and yelling at someone, like is it that level of boo-boo? Or the Japanese side, yamamoto going and smacking around a lieutenant for making some very questionable decisions? Like you have a very high-ranking person come in who had to leave his job site to smack people around.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 36:18

Or a general slapping someone in the hospital ward who was suffering from shell shock. It ruined Patton's career.

Joshua Gilliland: 36:32

Uh, to some extent yeah, bradley rises up because of that. Uh, I mean, bradley was still doing well on his own, but still bradley takes over for a reason. And yeah, so again, there's just so much, so much happening with this. Uh, and we have clay. Uh, like the stress is catching up with her because, you know, she goes from looking very competent to very ragged quickly because she's had a rough day. Uh, I mean that that condo is now a dump, which probably makes it easier to hide in. But you know, when you're digging equipment out of walls and you've just killed someone who raised you, I'm sure there's some stress and she's clearly figuring out how do I get out of this to pass the word.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 37:25

So I don't do the information doesn't die with her the word, so I don't do the information doesn't die with her, uh, so just just one before we escape this episode. One of the reasons why I think, uh, that deidre was able to save herself, uh, from the death penalty and was able to, you know, get some mercy and sent to prison in the next episode, was she does give Hurt the way to find the rebels, you know. So maybe someone had some mercy on her for, you know, showing that she still was the loyal Imperial soldier that she was, even when she was, you know, getting information through group chats from the Imperial Secretary of Defense.

Joshua Gilliland: 38:16

Yeah, I actually I thought about this because maybe death was too good that you know, if you want to make someone an example I think they're used to people dying example, I think they're used to people dying and sending her off to a gulag to work to death might be viewed as worse because it's a huge, huge insult, because this was someone.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 38:39

Except no one knows that prison exists in the imperial realm. So I don't know how much of a punishment it is to others, but clearly it's a worse punishment than death.

Joshua Gilliland: 38:48

Yeah, it's like we'll work you to death. Uh, all of the clout that you had is now gone. Um, you're going to be making widgets for some super weapon. That's life for you now. Um, say goodbye to that nice apartment, the. So I mean this goes. End of the episode.

Joshua Gilliland: 39:14

Beginning of the next one of you know they the those on yavin cat lutheran clea's message, and they have a communications blackout because they're trying to keep yavin secret, because Yavin can't fight the entire Imperial Navy. They could take out a few fighters, they could put up a good show, but you know, if there's orbital bombardment, how long would they last? And the answer is probably not long. So they have strict information security and we see our heroes kind of sidestepping that in order to go rescue the guy that brought them all together. So the final episode Jedha Khyber Urso we have, I think, some of the best spycraft storytelling of how to go save Kleia and we get to see K2SO in all of his glory just smacking people around. That is so refreshing and it's a good fight.

Joshua Gilliland: 40:26

But it raises the issue of you shouldn't use people as a human shield, like this crosses into desecration of a corpse pretty quickly. Um, I don't know if you could necessity defense your way out of that. Uh, I don't know if there's case law where that's been used, as I used, you know, freddy as a human shield in order to avoid getting shot and then through him. I don't know if that would work and I don't. Luckily, I'm not in a practice area where that will ever be a question I have to deal with, and, your Honor, if you haven't dealt with it, that's a good sign.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 41:08

Yeah, I especially don't see a case where a robot would be allowed to use a human as a shield and get away with it. I think that robot would be deactivated.

Joshua Gilliland: 41:22

Yes, yes, so excellent. Hallway battle, hallway battle. We also see more of Saw and Mon Mothma with their disagreement. That's been brewing since Rebels, and it's also in this one year period where Saw apparently does get massively injured and loses legs and is, you know, a walking respirator. So it's nice to actually have a little time stamp on that, because when we see him in Rebels he's still in one piece, all right. So we have the U-Wing returns with no flight plan and there's all kinds of security issues with this. And your Honor, can you talk about the unscheduled U-Wing flying back in?

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 42:13

Yeah, you know he, upon returning to the base he ends up being confined to quarters, which is a punishment that is given, awaiting, you know, usually a formal court martial or some kind of board.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 42:29

It is used if you're not sent to the brig, if you're not deemed to be that much of a flight risk.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 42:33

You would be confined to your quarters and he was doing that to await further military action or military tribunal. He probably would have been guilty under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 121, which is basically taking a property without authority to do so, because he did take both K2SO and he did take the U-Wing to try to rescue his friends from Coruscant. He also did not have permission to leave, so he would have been guilty of Article 86, which is AWOL absence without leave because he was not given permission to leave the planet with property to go on this unscheduled mission. So he clearly would have violated the military code and at this point the Yavin base is a formal military organization with the rank structure, a hierarchy, and clearly he was violating those laws. He does tell them what he learned and the information that Luthan died to provide them and, as we all know, from future Star Wars shows we know how crucial that information was, but he is confined to quarters and told to wait there until they decide what they're going to do with him all makes sense.

Joshua Gilliland: 44:16

But you know, it's also so well acted and written. Uh, you know, we, when we have, you know, bail verse, you know and, or, and it's you know a question about like well, how did you, when would you last see him? It's like when I saved mon mothma from your people, like that, like those one-liners. It's like, yeah, oh, okay, good to know my mistake. So, okay, brilliantly done. And it's Mothma who is more on his advocate side for letting him go by the infirmary to see Clea. So, yes, lots of good stuff there.

Joshua Gilliland: 44:59

Um, we have with with Penta gas, listening to, uh, the manifesto, which I guess was a vlog. Uh, you know that we a podcast, um, because it wasn't just like some flashback audio, it was, you know, the head of the ISB listening to this. It's fitting that the Imperials basically are okay with suicide of a high-ranking person you know, doing a, you know, harry Carey type type uh, move to end their life as a matter of dignity. Um, I thought that was interesting of, I need a moment to collect my thoughts and he shoots himself, uh, again, like we wouldn't recognize that that, um, but apparently they, they did, and the officer sent to bring him in, you know calms down the stormtroopers in the hallway, like it was code that they had for I need a moment to collect. My thoughts. Is I'm just gonna go shoot myself, uh, but if you know that's the code, is that okay or is this malfeasance of some kind?

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 46:25

uh, your honor, your thoughts on that, yeah I think you know he he's captain lagrat served with the major for for a long time and I think he was giving him that professional courtesy. Whether the captain's superiors would see it that way is another story, because if they wanted to question the major about something they might have wanted him alive. I don't know where interrogation of Padagats would have given them any more information, so they probably would kind of let Captain Legrat go with. Maybe you shouldn't have done that but not any kind of formal charges that I would see person to person and probably rebel cells were playing it. And it's a really well-written manifesto and it does speak towards, you know, small insurrections being sometimes the only weapon that people might have against tyranny. And and it's certainly uh are words that have have proven true uh throughout the history of of this planet and in the star wars universe yeah, we do.

Joshua Gilliland: 47:52

um, this show was really good at the small moments and one of those small moments is the Vel Clea reunion two characters that at times did not get along and both of them have lost a lot and they're now chatting. You know to the point that. You know Vel finds a very shell-shocked Clea just like walking out into the rain. It's like, don't it's, she's a valuable individual. We need her around, don't just the that that medical facility just seems a little bit understaffed if a patient can walk out confused. You know like hospitals don't like that happening generally, uh, but we do get, uh, you know cassian getting sent off to the events of rogue one, um, uh, either.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 48:52

if you want to just like highlight any of these parts of you know it's, you know the climax of this well, it was nice to see cassian actually get a, a order to go on a mission, uh, that he then leaves on an authorized u-wing with a flight plan, um uh to to engage in, and then we pick up with him later in in in rogue one, uh, I, I love in Rogue One, I love the. You know just seeing Mon Martha in the mess hall with the soldiers, and you know Deidre, as we've or I've alluded to several times, that she's now in Nakina 5 as an inmate, you know sobbing and we all love that episode and that episode arc back in the first season of that prison. You know you get to see the Death Star nearing completion. It really brings us all the way to Rogue One. And you know, as soon as I watched the last episode, I had to watch rogue one because it just, it just went into it so perfectly.

Stephen Tollafield: 50:02

And and I'll leave the, the, the, uh, the bix final moment to you, steven yeah, well, before I get to that, I I just want to flag that I loved that shot of perrin in the car with his, his um, his daughter's mother-in-law looking absolutely miserable. Before that that shot, I was curious about how mom's daughter and husband were reacting to her having fled the senate and becoming kind of a leader of the rebel alliance like it's. We still don't know exactly what they're thinking, but he's very unhappy and it couldn't happen to a worse guy. I'm just so glad that they just put that little um, you know, carrot on top of that. That was great um.

Stephen Tollafield: 50:47

And then, of course, the, the closing shot of dicks with um, her child, her and andrew's child is just um. So it was so beautifully done, so moving, moving. I think, judge, you underscored that. This kind of alludes to the sunrise that Luthan will never see so beautifully tied into that. It also visually echoed to me the image of the explosion from the Death Star on Scarif. That looks kind of like a sunrise, that there's sort of a parallel looking at the same thing across great distance and time, and so I thought it was just a really really well done conclusion, but that was just a springboard into another really really great Star Wars story.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 51:32

And I love seeing you know P2EMO having a friend and literally having fun and playing on the planet and you know they're kind of playing tag or having a race, and just to see that he kind of had a happy life at the end was really great. And you know, someone had told me to watch through the credits and listen to the music, and I'm glad someone did because I probably would have noticed it otherwise. But you know, the Andor soundtrack is very somber and and and and it was going as it goes through the credits and then it led into, you know, the, the John Williams, uh Star Wars theme and it was, it was done in in a wonderful way because, you know it, it brought that new hope uh, leading into to Rogue One. So it was a very, very satisfactory, well-done conclusion to a great, great season.

Judge Matthew Sciarrino: 52:28

And yes, as Josh said at the beginning, the bar has been raised and everyone will compare the future Star Wars series to this benchmark. Much like when Rogue One came out, I think all of us were shocked at how good it was. It really is one of my favorite Star Wars movies to this day, star Wars movies to this day, and when I rewatched it after this series I enjoyed it that much more. So if you haven't rewatched Rogue One to anyone listening to this. You really should.

Joshua Gilliland: 53:15

Rogue One is up there with Empire for me and which one is my favorite might depend on my mood, blood sugar level, how much sleep I've had, because there are times when it goes to number one and there are times when Empire goes back to number one, but it's just so exceptionally well done and the way that they made this series was done with love. We have compelling bad guys. They're not just doofuses or admirals getting and admirals in general is just getting killed left and right, like they are formidable bad guys and you actually are interested in them. Like re-watching the original. Tarkin's a very interesting character. We don't get a ton of time with him but we have enough because it's Peter Cushing's. He's a threat great actor. They have meaningful exploration with him, but not a lot because at the end he's atomized and so we don't get a bad guy like that. Again, thinking to the prequels, christopher Lee is Christopher Lee, very formidable and it's like wanted more time with him on screen Again. Formidable villain and this is just so well done and provocative and a lot to think about with this story, which is again it's a home run they did such a good job with this and subtle references to fandom throughout it with other characters and everything else.

Joshua Gilliland: 55:13

And if the only thing that we're complaining about is Luthen should have had a self-destruct in his office, that's pretty good. He didn't have an exit plan. Other than that, that's the only thing that we're complaining about. He didn't have an exit plan. So again, fantastic show. So with that, everyone I want to thank all my co-hosts that have helped on this journey, some who aren't here tonight, but they've all went on this adventure and stay tuned for more because we're looking at some other shows to cover this summer. And until then, everyone, stay safe, stay healthy and stay geeky, take care.