The Legal Geeks

Star Trek 60th - Review of Journey to Babel

• Joshua Gilliland and Judge Danna Nicholas

Share episode

We are kicking off our celebration for the 60th Anniversary of Star Trek with the The Original Series episode "Journey to Babel." Join us for diplomatic immunity, murder, attempted murder, the duty to volunteer for a medical procedure, hazarding a vessel, and conspiracy to commit fraud. 

Send us a text

Support the show


No part of this recording should be considered legal advice.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok @TheLegalGeeks

Joshua Gilliland:

Hello everyone. My name is Joshua Gilliland, co-founder of the Legal Geeks. We are entering the 60th anniversary of Star Trek. And to celebrate, we're going to talk about at least once a month a different Trek episode. And that's not including Starfleet Academy. So stay tuned. We're going to get a little wild and crazy. With me to talk about our first episode in the series is Judge Dana Nicholas. I will say this. Your Honor, how are you?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Great. I cannot wait. This is going to be a fabulous year. This is super exciting. And uh again, this doesn't offer any legal advice. Uh, so this is just a fantasy world. We're applying law just kind of in a vacuum to a fake scenario. I know we all believe Star Trek is real, but uh it's not real law for you.

Joshua Gilliland:

But it's it's a reflection of what could be, and the reason that they have this pasta future is because of laws that respect people and respect civil rights, and showing that individuals coming from radically different backgrounds can all be together and respect each other's values and celebrate what they have in common. The first episode we're going to dive in on is Journey to Babel, which is from the original series, season two. It's one of my favorite episodes, because it sets up so much that we're going to see later in movies and great character interaction, and there's some really good feel-good moments, in addition to some hard cuts that don't make sense. So I don't know what happened with some of the editing with this one, but there's so many good feelings associated with this episode.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Absolutely. I completely agree. Uh, there's also some uh lack of science. This is before they got a lot of science people on board uh with Star Trek, and so it's it's kind of a funny look back on on the idea before we uh went to a more scientifically sound uh show. But I do love it because it just it it's it's helps to deepen the characters uh that we grow to love later on in the entire series. So you're absolutely right. This is a great, great episode. Uh, and it's very interesting sociologically uh because at the time that this episode originally aired, there were a lot of things going on uh as far as civil rights were concerned, uh, and internationally. And so this shows that people can get along, uh, and I think that's awesome.

Joshua Gilliland:

And the I mean it has some of the wonderful character moments that establish, you know, it's it's the esprit de corps between the main three, and it's some of the best acting that Leonard Nimoy gives in the series, and we'll talk about that with some of the specific scenes with some of the legal overtones. Um, but it also having the characters without emotion have a deep father-son scene uh is priceless because Mark Leonard and Leonard Nimoy do such a good job as this father-son dynamic where there's estrangement and how they um there's love. I'm like, but it's it's not like how we we interpret it, but for anyone who had a boomer dad, oh that hits hard, and uh that's familiar. So uh so there's a lot of good stuff here. So let's let's jump in, uh let's board the enterprise. And you know, normally the enterprise would have a crew of 435, like that. That's what we hear in the the original series. Pikes area, it's a little less, a couple hundred less, but they have 200 ambassadors on board, so that would be a very full ship. And we we don't know if they offloaded some crew to make space, or if we have people bunking up, like normally two people are in here, now six are staying in here in order to make room for ambassadors and and their entourages. So, like, we we don't know how that's all playing out, but that'd be a very full ship. And you know, there's the comment about um half the ambassadors are mad at the other half. There's this diplomatic dispute over admission of Corridon to the Federation, and it raises the issue of what is diplomatic immunity? And so the issue is do all the ambassadors have diplomatic immunity aboard the USS Enterprise? And I've done a little research into this, but you know, Your Honor, do you want to take the first swipe at some of the diplomatic immunity issues here?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Well, I'll let you uh take the first swing at this. Um, but uh yeah, go ahead, take the first swing at this one.

Joshua Gilliland:

Thank you. So looking at the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, it states that believing that an international convention on diplomatic intercourse, privileges and immunities would contribute to the development of friendly relations among nations, irrespective of their differing constitutional and social systems. Realizing that the purpose of such privileges and immunity and immunities is not to benefit individuals, but to ensure the efficient performance of the functions of diplomatic missions as representing states. Then this gets into the wonderful fun issues that have been in pop culture and real life, where you know we have diplomats with unpaid parking tickets, we have lethal weapon, and in the plot in the first one there where the bad guy says diplomatic immunity. Like, so like it's a thing, but it has to be part of the diplomatic mission. It's some of it's like the speech and debate clause uh for for members of Congress. Like you can have an argument and argue about things, or if you're in court, like we have a similar privilege there of being able to articulate the arguments about whether it's breach of contract or uh family law matter, like that doesn't amount to slander because you're in court, you know, and being able to express what's going on of these are the allegations of the complaint, that's not actionable because it's part of the lawsuit. So these ambassadors on the diplomatic mission, it then turns into, well, do they have diplomatic immunity? And I think the answer is yeah, as long as it's part of the diplomatic mission, they have diplomatic immunity. But some of that can go out of the window um because this is like it's not just nation states, they're all part of the federation. So it's like states, it'd be someone from California and someone from Nevada, like and if they if you have a assembly member from California and assembly member from Nevada, and they're having a discussion, if are they both talking in their official capacity? Are they having a like a legitimate debate? Um, which is different than Congress people having that type of debate. It's part of their job to have this discussion. And the issue of do we admit this other planet that has all these dilithium mines into the Federation? That's a legitimate discussion. And if there's piracy taking place or illegal mining taking place, that's all fair game for people to talk about.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Absolutely.

Joshua Gilliland:

Any other thoughts on this since we have ambassadors running around left and right?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Well, I would say that the enterprise is akin to the United Nations building or The Hague or any place else. Uh so just because it's moving through space, I don't think that it would um, you know, take away that diplomatic immunity. Now, when you start to do other things like murder people, well, that's a problem.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, you don't get to go diplomatic immunity at that point. So we have uh a Tellerite ambassador who's murdered, like his body is found in a Jeffrey's tube. That's not like fall down, go boom. That's not like he had a stroke, that's not like some medical incident took place. Somebody killed him.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And I always wanted to know how he fit in that Jeffries tube.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, somebody strong picked him up and put him in feet first, like it's a very undignified death for an ambassador, like he's representing a planet, and whatever disagreements that that other ambassadors could have with him. The point of having a federation is you can talk out your problems. You might not always agree, and you're not always gonna win each debate. Sometimes you're gonna lose. Like you're it'd be weird if you were on the winning side of every issue every time. That's life. Uh, but you shouldn't be murdered. And the the the f facts from the episode showing the murder is Ambassador Gav uh confronted Sarik over the admission of uh Cor Corridon, and it was right uh there were there are two incidences of this. Savak eventually in the second encounter says he favors admission. Serik identified issues on the benefits of the admission. Uh Sarik raised issues of who could be doing some underground illegal trading, uh shipments of the lithium after mining. Uh Gav accused Serik of slander. Gav then attacks Serik. Serik blocks the attack, and then it's after that we see Gav found in the turbo or the um Jeffrey's tube with a broken neck similar to a Vulcan style of execution called Tal Shara, uh, which would all go to hey, I think a Vulcan did this. And uh you know, Your Honor, would there be probable cause at this point to have an arrest warrant for Ambassador Sarek for the death of Ambassador Gagav?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I I I don't know that there would be at this point, uh, based on that small amount of circumstantial evidence, but there would certainly be enough evidence to uh conduct a search, right? If they wanted to search his quarters, uh do testing uh to see if maybe he had some cellulite, you know, blue on his hand, or you know, whatever uh any type of DNA or something, uh there would be sufficient evidence for that. But to arrest, mmm, maybe, maybe not. Uh I it would be very, very fact-specific. Uh, but I I just based on what we see in the episode, I'd probably say no.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there's I I think enough for testing. And you know, this is 19, you know, the it's made in 66, 67. So we have Miranda on the books. We have the other, a bunch of the other search cases have become law from the Supreme Court as well by this point. Uh, but the police and like in the and police investigation would be like, are there fingerprints on the neck? Like they seem a little quick at going, like, well, this is a Vulcan style form of execution, but like there's no dusting for prints. There's like, and by the time that McCoy is there, the body's out of the Jeffreys tube. So it's like, do you guys not know how to do an investigation? Like, is there just weird CSI, the lack of a CSI type type theme when this episode was written in 1967?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And it's the it's the lack of science uh and forethought in the early in the early episodes. They really were trying hard, and it was a great try, uh, but they forget things like uh at the time they were able to communicate with people throughout the ship. So that indicates they know where people are. You're able to transport people off and on the ship, you know where people are located. Uh so it would be pretty easy to track an ambassador to determine where on the ship they were at the time. Uh, and so they could have could probably easily clear Sarak unless for some reason none of the ambassadors uh had they were able to track any of the ambassadors. But uh there's one of the things that I'm like, ugh, we can move people around, we can locate where communications are coming from, but we just can't figure out where Sarek was during that whole incident.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, you think there would be a better tracking system because you don't want to lose anyone on board, especially if you have 200 VIPs and like they're all the chance for argument is high. So you think you would be on on your toes uh for that situation.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And with 200 extra bodies on the ship, it's not likely that they're gonna have extra space where somebody could kill someone and then shove a very heavy person into a Jeffers tube.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's like how's there's how is there empty space? Like how do you again ships have empty spaces, they have void spaces, but if you have a crew of like if it's an aircraft carrier where it's like you know, modern aircraft carrier, 5,000 people, that's a lot of people. And if it's a destroyer, it's like, oh look, we have a crew of 300, it's still 300 people. Like you don't, it's like here's an empty part where no one happens to be at this specific time. That's weird. Possible, right? Weird.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Um so you have to ask on ships that size, you have to ask people to leave your thoughts in order for you to change your mind. That's how close people are in the quarters.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, it's like, and we're passing, hey, how you doing? Yeah, it there would be it'd be a tight fit. But when our heroes question Ambassador Carec, he has a medical incident, and it was like a basically a heart failure type situation, uh, a cardiac arrest. And the the it's and he says, I was having one of these while that ambassador was was being murdered. That's so a scan could be able to verify that. That's very true, and so being able to go, like, okay, medically, it was not possible for him to be doing that because he would have been incapacitated on the deck, and all of that would be bad, and so you would go, okay, there could be a medical certainty to rule him out as a suspect, um, which is a good thing. So now we have Spock's mom is adorable, she is pure mom, and watching the interplay with kind of the playful mom and the very stoic son is is is is wonderful, and we get to see that again in Star Trek 4, uh, you know, a couple decades later. And we have Amanda disclose to McCoy that Spock had a teddy bear, you know, as a Salek. Uh, I'm probably mispronouncing that, but you know, a very something with six-inch fangs, something that you're not gonna be late feeding. Again, it's like having here's my pet bear, and like we don't.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

It was her God-given right as a mother to embarrass him. Yeah, period.

Joshua Gilliland:

I'm glad I know you're a mom, you can say that, and I know there are a lot of moms who relish that moment, bunch of ants too. Seeing it experienced it, but no, there are some of the older forms of of slander. So there's concepts of things, you know, causes of action like false light, disclosure of private facts. I don't think we have that here. Like saying, like he had he was very fond of his teddy bear and it, you know, and it was named Yogi, or you know, no one's gonna go like, okay, man, that was kind of cute. Like, why sounds like a nice child to me? Like, why would you? Um, but again, that leads to a really nice scene with Sarek saying, like, you embarrassed our son, and and her going, like, you're proud of him. And he's like, It doesn't matter. It's like so again, it's pure boomer dad energy, but man, is it so good? Of uh, you know, the dads that don't know how to express, I'm proud of my child. Like, I can only express affection by talking about tire pressure, like that kind of and like, oh, you're take you did a good job with this tire pressure, or they just give you the nod, they check it out and they go, Okay.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

But that that brings up a really good, uh, another good, really good issue with mom disclosing that. I I really I truly believe that moms get the opportunity to embarrass their children because their children embarrass them. Uh, but she didn't violate any HIPAA laws. So uh she wasn't saying, you know, he had some communicable disease, uh, she wasn't providing his private medical history. Uh he had a heart attack when he was 12. Nothing of that nature. Uh it's just her being mom asked.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, and she does it so well, so good good for her. Good for her. It's and it's again, it's a well-written, meaningful scene. Now we get this is this is the hard cut. And so they're of Kirk getting attacked by the Andorian, which is really an Orion double agent. And it it's like a smash cut, like there's no lead up. They could have had a two-second clip of like Kirk just walking down the hall and then the attack happening. Like they skip that. It's just it's just fight. And again, it's Kirk Fu, like he gets stabbed and he still does the finishing kick. It is it's glorious William Shatner action, uh, but it's attempted murder. Because it's it's you know, your Your Honor, you have presided over criminal cases. If if a criminal complaint came across your desk, what would your reaction to these facts be?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Well, if if if the case uh involving Captain Kirk came in, uh where an assassin just tried to give him the the chop, I would say yes. Yeah, it is an attempted murder. Did the person use force likely to uh cause great bodily injury or death? Uh and in this case he he attempted to do that. Uh it's pretty clear, even though, like you said, there is a hard cut. Um So and and I I'm always impressed with Kirk at how he's able to escape these moments. He's like, I want to be Kirk in real life. Like any problem I get, cha.

Joshua Gilliland:

Been watching other Trek series, and again, I love them all for different reasons. But there's a charm with William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, and uh DeForest Kelly that I the the way the big three interact, uh, the the like this family connection that that they all have. Uh there's just this charm that's extremely endearing. And Kirk Kirk Fu with again kick to the face, and then the wherewithal to call for help and actually like give real good details before collapsing. It's fantastic. Um so again, we have attempted murder. Now there's a weird uh right against incrimination uh throwaway line, and like they did this in the original episode, The Man Trap. The suspects taken in and they give them truth serum serum. Yes, they mention that in the man trap as well of like, yeah, we'll give them truth serum. We don't do that, and the way that they throw around those lines with such a cavalier, no civil right in influence or concern, uh kind of freaked me out. And you know, like Your Honor, what was your reaction to we'll just give them truth serum?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I I just was I was like, what the business? The first time I saw it, and then we've already given them truth serum and we've gotten nothing out of him. Yeah, that's one it's it's it's hard to wrap your mind around people actually doing that. Uh and then secondly, like does it work? Uh what are they using? Uh can they use it on different people's physiology? Uh these are different species. You don't have no idea how that's going to react to someone. You could kill them.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, there's uh there are cases from our own history that have dealt with we don't like the truth serum idea. Like it's it's it was shot down in a variety of ways when it was attempted decades ago, ranging from the right against incrimination to is this even trustworthy? It it just seems offensive on so many levels. We don't do it. Like we just we don't do that here. But again, throwaway line of time out. Uh now the heart of this story is uh Spock and Cerek, and Serek needs surgery, and we have dad needing surgery, and son is heavily involved in trying to figure out how do we save dad. And for for the estrangement, he's Spock's jumping through all kinds of hoops, going, we could do this test, we could try this. Dad and son are actually talking about treatment with the doctor standing there, and the doctor going, like, I'm some glad someone's asked me for my opinion. And uh, again, there's so much heart with the two guys without emotion that uh I'm like, this is core values of Trek. Um, but we have you know the issue of does Spock have a duty to volunteer for a blood transfusion to help dad? And Your Honor, what's the duty to others?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I would say here there is no duty to put yourself in danger. Uh, because we hear the line from uh from Bones, he's saying, you know, it would be so much blood, not even you could survive Spock, right? And then uh we find out about uh medication or formula that would help Spock to create more blood, uh, but that's deadly. It's only been tried in theory, uh, and we don't know how it's gonna work. So there's no, even when a person's life isn't in jeopardy, uh, there's no requirement that you provide an organ or provide blood or tissue. Uh you have autonomy in your own body. But then when you add in the other factor of, hey, this is experimental, uh, I don't think that that's required.

Joshua Gilliland:

No, we have mom saying, I don't want to lose you both.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Joshua Gilliland:

And and so again, mom, mom's getting very mom upset on a variety of levels uh throughout this episode. And do you know what justified uh all with with each instance of being upset? You question we'll talk about the one with that I have a problem with, but she's she's very mom of like, no, I don't want to want both of you to die. So uh, but I want to I want it both of you to live. So we have um when Kirk's incapacitated, Spock takes command, and he actually does the captain's log, and which is also neat to see, like it's it's Leonard Nimore saying captain's log, and that's cool. Uh, but he's unwilling to give up command because he says, I have a duty to everyone on this ship. He articulates the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few argument, not with the exact words, but it's there, and we'll see that again in Star Trek 2, 3, and 4. So, like it there's a lot of core values established in in this one episode. Uh, and then we have one of the most powerful scenes of mom confronts him, uh, end quarters, and says, You can turn this ship over. And he's like, No, this is here, you know, we have murder, attempted murder, we have a threatening vessel following us. I can't I can't turn over command to to Scotty, and we have mom say, I will, you know, like if you don't do this, I will hate you for the rest of my life, and slaps him across the face and walks out. And again, powerful scene of guy without emotions puts his hand on the door because mom just slapped him. That had to hurt on an emotional level. Uh, that's like worse than any phaser wound that that would that you could get. Your Your Honor, is she right and justified?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I I think so. And I I can see uh it was really powerful acting. Uh because I mean he's you could really see uh through his acting that he's like, all right, I already know I have a strained relationship with my dad. He's Vulcan, that's what's gonna happen. It's you know, I disappointed him. This is only logical. But mom is the one who is nurturing and very human and loves her kid no matter what, and is trying to reach out, and so she's saying for him to lose that, yeah, that's very different. Dad steps away, that's just dad being dad. Uh, but mom stepping away, that's really hard. Also, what I thought was, why didn't Amanda slap Serek? Right? Like, you had three of these recently and you didn't say anything. Like, this is something that you should have told me immediately, if not faster.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, yeah. The I didn't you couldn't have done anything. I don't see, in my experience as someone who's never been married, that being a good idea, like being able to go, like, well, you couldn't have done anything, so I didn't tell my wife that I've had three heart attacks. Pretty sure after heart attack one, you should have said something. And is again, not there's the mindset of like, don't miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut. However, with your spouse, you should be open about like I have a heart condition, and this is why I want to retire at the tender age of 103.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Um, and that helped me to see that Spock and Sarek are so much alike because Sarek had a sense of duty. He probably the doctor who gave him the medication who who treated him initially probably could have done a surgery for him, but he wanted to do this diplomatic mission, and he felt that it was more important to more people that he do the diplomatic mission than it was for him to say preserve his own life. And he felt like you know, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and I will retire after this is over. And Spock, in the same way, when we see him commanding the vessel, he says, No, not anyone else could do this. I'm I'm the guy, and that's really what his dad did is say, I'm the guy, I'm gonna self-sacrifice here. So uh I like that parallel where we see how they are so much alike, and then we get the pure humanity of Kirk and McCoy.

Joshua Gilliland:

So, like, you know, when Kirk wakes up finally and you know, and and learns what's going on, and and Seric's on the other side of the Med Bay listening for the listening to the guys he's supposed to not be comfortable with because he didn't want his son to go to Starfleet, and hearing them go, like, yeah, I'm not gonna let him commit patricide. So, can you patch me up so I could fake it and then turn things over to Scotty? Because we're not gonna let his dad die. That's pure humanity, it's absolute pure humanity. It's also a full-blown conspiracy at this point to do to defraud Spock into giving a blood transfusion to save his dad. And I think the facts show that, but I'm okay with it. Your honor, you you made some notes here.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I am not okay with it. You cannot do medical procedures against people by trick. You just can't do it. I it's uh it's not only, hey, let's give give you a blood sample. We have laws where we say, hey, look, if you drive a car, you're required in the state of California to provide a blood or a breath uh sample. If you're stopped by the police and there's reasonable suspicion uh that you have committed an offense like driving under the influence of alcohol. We're okay with that because that's something that you agreed to at the very beginning. Here, they're having him go into a process that really could kill him. They're tricking him into doing something that could kill him. Uh, so really that's not okay. I'm not okay with that. Uh, and it could potentially be larceny by trick. You're getting someone to give something uh a value, and here it's valuable because it saves uh Sarak's life uh based on some fake information.

Joshua Gilliland:

I have a different perspective on it because I think Spock understood all the risks to himself for the medical procedure, so it wasn't tricking him to to actually go through the surgery because Spock knew the risks of the surgery and knew the danger to himself or the surgery. Spock's concern was the safety of the of the of the vessel and everyone on board. So I would I still think there's some tomfoolery happening here, uh uh, but it's Spock and McCoy or excuse me, Kirk and McCoy not wanting Sarek to die because of Spock's uh great sense of duty and loyalty to to his career. And it's like I need to keep every I need possibly 600 people safe. Like, I can't just save dad because he's my dad, uh, and I'm the next person in line to keep us safe from whatever threat that we're facing.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And what would have happened if they were all redshirts, right? What if they were redshirts and and Captain Kurt came out and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna be fine, blah. And then we get somebody else taking charge of the ship, and the ship gets blown up. They're gonna be like, Hey, Spock, you know, why didn't you stay your post? There was no reason for you to leave your post.

Joshua Gilliland:

Um, and my dad has a higher chance of living if I'm still on the bridge to get us through this dangerous situation. So, again, there's it's problematic, but it's pure track. Like it's it's it's why people go like, no man, no, I'm not gonna let my friend's dad die. I'm just not going to do that.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And then with a diplomatic mission of that sort, um, I I'm amazed that there wasn't enough blood of each of the types of uh foreign uh ambassadors that were on board. You would you would think that they would need to have uh a generic type like our R equivalent of a O negative for every single species that was on board.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I mean they do address Cerek having T negative blood, which is supposed to be very rare even for a Vulcan. So I appreciate some effort to talk about that. However, that's a it's a big however. You think you'd be well stocked, and you think you would have a couple other doctors on board. Uh while McCoy is one of the best doctors out there. Uh, you know, like we we have him talking about like I've never done surgery in a Vulcan before. Like, I've treated Spock for boo-boos, like I haven't like had to operate on him. No, your Your Honor, and you raised the issue of is McCoy committing medical malpractice by doing the surgery. And could you share your thoughts on that?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I he did not have any type of requisite knowledge uh of the Vulcan anatomy to even do it. Uh, we have um the nurse taking Sarah's blood pressure and she reads it out, and he goes, Wow, I wish I knew if that was good, right? He's getting ready to do surgery on someone. I wish I knew if that were good. Uh and he makes a statement. I I know about basic Vulcan physiology, uh, but I I have no idea. I'd have to open them up to see. Um, and so that along with the you know, the cell multiplying drug, uh, it's experimental. I've never tried it, I've never seen it use it. You know, it potentially could kill you. I this surgery could kill you. Um, I think that at the time uh that Circ is getting the surgery, however, uh he's faced with the idea of Circ will absolutely die if I take no action, or he potentially could die if I take the action. Uh and so I think that based on the circumstances of him needing uh you know action, then he he just needed to do what he needed to do. He had some medical training more than any other person on ship, and so it was an acceptable risk uh for him to try to do the surgery on Sarah.

Joshua Gilliland:

I I agree with your analysis uh because there was no other option, you know, like literally no other option. Like Memanga was not on board who they referenced as having experience working on Vulcans. So, and the you know, it's not like each ambassadorial team sent a doctor with everyone, which would make the teams bigger. Um, but also you could go, like, let's staff up with three more doctors who are skilled in, you know, like if everyone's skilled in like three or four different species, we're gonna be covered. Uh we'll be okay. Um, to the point of the urgency. It's not like we're gonna be there in an hour. There are specialists there, it's gonna be okay. Yeah, it's do or die, like and 100% chance of death if we don't do anything, and maybe an 80% chance of death if we go now. Okay, so the 20% chance of living. Let's let's take the 20% chance of living, right?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And Sarek kind of brought it on himself, right? He knew that he had had this condition and he chose to go on a deep space mission anyway. Uh, and so he knew that this was a possibility uh before he left, and and that's kind of the possibility that he accepted.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, that and bring your doctor, like if if you're gonna have that kind of problem of like, so this could be a thing, I'm gonna take a specialist with me. And so, like, uh either Tularie gets a trip out of this, or he's gonna be doing surgery if things go sideways. So let's make this work.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And you could disguise him as an ambassador, he's our junior ambassador, yeah. It's my protocol clerk, or whatever you want to call him.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, or again, our medical specialist, because we travel with a medical specialist now. Okay, it's like you guys don't have anyone to work on Vulcans. We're we're bringing a doctor with us. So, and all of that, but again, that would suck the drama out of it, you know. We we need to see Kirk being Kirk and McCoy being McCoy and Scotty fixing things off camera. Like, we like this is and there's a lot of uhura in this episode as well. So like put her front and center. So again, a lot of good stuff. But for Kirk to Kirk did not intend to keep command. He entered, you know, he intended to turn things over to Scotty as soon as Spock left the bridge, and he had started that process when they get attacked. Is there hazarding of a vessel by him taking this action?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Uh what do you what do you think? Is he hazarding the vessel? You're our ship guy.

Joshua Gilliland:

I don't think so. I like because he wasn't intending, he was he was planning to turn things over. And I think the situation would have been worse if he had turned it over when they had started getting attacked. Because Scotty needed to be in the engine room. Kirk is the tactical thinker, he's the shrewd one. You don't want the captain leaving the bridge in an emergency. That's bad for morale overall. If people go like, well, the captain's dying, we're screwed. Like, you don't want people uh like you need the leaders who project confidence. It's it's think of national disasters where, like, you know, a governor breaks down in tears and looks very sad and out of control. Like, that doesn't make people feel good uh when that happens, like and it has happened. Um, like those people don't win elections after that. Uh so uh like you need someone to project confidence of like it's bad, but we're gonna get through it. Here's what we're gonna do. And Kirk does that, and then reports immediately to Sick Bay with like uh I'm I'm span Scotty take the wheel. So I I don't think so. I think he made the wrong thing.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Scotty, take the wheel, yeah.

Joshua Gilliland:

So hang out here until Scotty gets up. Um I gotta go lay down now. I'm bleeding. Um again, all good stuff. Again, it's such a wonderful episode that has so many core values of track that radiate, you know, 60 years later.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And and I just love that Kirk is is is thinking, you know, hey look, I can't fault he he says it I can't fault Spock for wanting to do his duty. I can't do that. But I'm not gonna let him sacrifice his dad. Right? He he there's there's some sort I didn't know this was his dad until just now. And I I don't know what's going on with that relationship. And he even tried to fix it. He even tried to fix the relationship. Hey, why don't you tell him about computers? I taught him everything he knows, right? Like that's the total six total sixties dad. There's nothing that you can tell me. I know it all already. Thank you very much. I've forgotten more than you'll ever learn.

Joshua Gilliland:

Yeah, I mean, again, there's a lot of boomer energy there, and it's uh speaking from experience, having a boomer dad, like yeah, it's it was a thing. Uh a lot of dad energy. Uh, but like again, at the core, the best friends, like, I'm not gonna let this happen. I'm just I'm just not. You know, we have a mom being mom in in a very pure sense, and and the two guys without emotions representing the best of humanity with a father-son relationship. Um because it ends the way that they're talking back and forth, it's like, okay, they're now chatting. Good good for them. Good for them. Um, mom unloads on them, rightly so. Um, I'm like, I don't want to hear it, knock it off. Um, and McCoy gets the last word. I don't know how many episodes McCoy gets the last word besides this one. Uh there probably more, but that's very true.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

I can't think of one. I've watched a lot of episodes, and I can't I can't think of one where he gets the last word.

Joshua Gilliland:

It's because it's normally like Kirk with uh, you know, the playful smirk, and like we're off to the next adventure. And this is he looks, it's like he was stabbed, like he just kept everyone alive, like he's hurt and tired, and you know needs to recover from nearly dying. Right. Spock is bled out saving dad. Like everyone needs a spa day at this point, and uh McCoy gets the last word. It's it's it's really sweet. So, well, with that, uh Your Honor, anything else for the good of the order about this episode?

Judge Danna Nicholas:

Well, the one issue that I I thought, huh, that's very interesting. When we had our uh fake Andorian communicating with the enemy vessel while they're on board, you know, is that a violation of the law? Uh yeah, is it is it a violation to uh communicate with an enemy combatant, providing them with information, uh, you know, tracking information, location information. Uh, and so if you look at uh 50 USC uh 1881 H, uh and it's about unauthorized disclosures. Uh so a person is guilty of an offense under that section if they knowingly and willfully communicate, furnish or transmit information uh to unauthorized persons or publish or use in any manner uh that is prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any other government. And here, you know, if we equate uh Starfleet with United States uh and uh these other um species with any foreign government, uh then yes, we absolutely have that. Uh and the penalty for that is up to eight years imprisonment, a fine, or both. Um, and here I'm guessing there would be imprisonment. Uh but the kicker here is that you have to be an officer or employee uh of the United States or here, Starfleet Academy, in order for this uh section to apply. Uh so if he didn't have any ties to the Starfleet Diplomatic Corps in any way, uh then this particular section wouldn't apply.

Joshua Gilliland:

That is a really good catch because he's a spy. So on top of that, there's probably some espionage uh code sections being broken as well. Uh he's a foreign agent uh acting as an endorian and surgically altered to pass tests to look like an Endorian. Uh you know, it would take a deeper autopsy for them to figure out he's an Orion. Uh, but yeah, that's that's really good for uh because there would there's the espionage element, which is again very Cold War, very very track in the in the 1960s of uh like again, spy stories are this was the era of James Bond and uh uh Flint and you know other other you know cloak and dagger stories from that time period. So very good catch. Well, with that, uh we'll we'll you know close hailing frequencies for tonight, but stay tuned for more. We're we're mustering up to talk about academy. We uh we have uh a bunch of episodes identified. We still are working on more. We haven't figured out which lower decks episode we'll talk about. We'll wanna we will figure because there's so many good ones. Same with Prodigy, so many good ones uh to talk about from that series. And uh there's each season of DS9 had a courtroom episode, and it it has the most courtroom episodes out of all of track because they did one a year, um, on top of all the other great legal issues. So we have a lot of uh uh room to play. Uh so if somebody says, like, hey, I really want to hear about rules of engagement or drumhead, you know, please you know drop us a comment uh because there's a lot of great track out there that touches on fantastic legal issues and social issues.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

And I suspect I I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if we get a thousand more subscribers, I am sure that Josh would be more than happy to do an episode for every year of track. Yeah, yeah, like 60 episodes this year.

Joshua Gilliland:

Oh, that would be actually that'd be fun. I mean, like we we call that Tuesday of being able to go, like, what'd you do? Well, I talked about Star Trek. Like, yeah, we would yeah, there's again 60 episodes a track. Yeah, right now we're looking two weeks a year.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

We could do two in a week. Yeah, we could.

Joshua Gilliland:

I mean we're we're talking about at least 12 right now, so like you know, we'll just multiply it by five. Uh so no pressure. Um not not at all. We'll we'll be fine. It's uh you know, proportionality analysis, it's it's no undue burden there. We'll be fine.

Judge Danna Nicholas:

So can't wait.

Joshua Gilliland:

Again, it's we live in this era where we're getting new Trek. Like, this is a fantastic time, you know. Trek was there like through college and law school, you know, and and then we had a wilderness period again, you know, and we've been it's we've only had a short time without having like two Trek series a year. Like, this is a golden age. So let's let's keep being grateful. Everyone, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, and again, if you have if you have your favorite episode of track that you think would be good for legal analysis, ping us, let us know, and we'll we'll see if it's not already on the list. Um, because it might already be on the list. Uh, and if not, we can add it. So, everyone, wherever you are, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay geeky. Take care.

Head Shot

Joshua Gilliland

Host