Star Trek 60: Troubling Tribbles

Tribbles are an iconic species in Star Trek. Cute. Cuddling. Invasive. Join us as we continue celebrating the 60th Anniversary of Star Trek with the ever multiplying legal issues with Tribbles.   

Transcript

Joshua Gilliland 0:02

Hello everyone. My name is Joshua Gilliland, one of the founding attorneys of the Legal Geeks. We are here to continue our celebration of Star Trek's 60th anniversary. And what better way to do that than with the most dangerous invasive species ever in science fiction? Tribbles. With me on this voyage is Michael Skeen. We've done panels together, we've done podcasts together, and now we're going to talk about Trek 60th. Michael, how are you?

Michael Skeen 0:33

Oh, good. And uh yeah, thank you very much for the opportunity. Um, you know, Trouble of Troubles is easily one of one of the most beloved episodes, and it's a personal favorite of mine. So very happy to have the chance to talk about it.

Joshua Gilliland 0:45

Excellent. So let's let's dig in. So, Michael, what's a triple?

Michael Skeen 0:51

Uh a treble is a very cute, fluffy creature that uh is born pregnant and um eats voraciously and basically just sits there and manages to breed and breed and breed and breed and eat and eat and eat and eat. And um, everybody but Klingon seems to love them, and uh they seem to love everybody else but Klingons.

Real Invasive Species And The Law

Joshua Gilliland 1:14

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack with what went wrong there. It's it's it's similar to not liking a golden retriever. It takes a special person to not get along with a golden retriever. There are some breeds of dogs that aren't snuggly, but a golden just wants to be love and played fetch. When they triple, it's born to snuggle and make a lot more tribles. Yeah. So let's just highlight what is uh some of the dangers of an invasive species. And this is from what Congress has defined under 16 USCS section 4701A2. When environmental conditions are favorable, non-indigenous species become established, may compete with or prey upon native species of plants, fish, and wildlife, may carry diseases or parasites that affect native species, and may disrupt the aquatic environment and economy of affected near shore areas. And again, that's obviously an aquatic version because ships can come in, pump bilge water into, say, San Francisco Bay, and it's got mussels and other creatures in there from the other side of the planet, and there are no predators for those things, and they just thrive. And which is why we don't want ships dumping bilge water that have been overseas in San Francisco Bay, because we can get weird, ugly things that will just take over the bay, and we don't want that.

Michael Skeen 2:47

Right.

Joshua Gilliland 2:49

Or people with, hey, a python would be a great pet, and then they realize it's not, and then release it into the Everglades, and now we have pythons in a place that didn't have pythons before.

Michael Skeen 3:00

Yeah. Well, and uh, I remember years ago when I was living on the East Coast, East Coast when the snakehead fish was introduced, um, to much everybody's chagrin, because it also no predator and is a very invasive species, and I think they're still dealing with that.

Tribble Math And Worst Case Scenarios

Joshua Gilliland 3:14

Yeah, there's a variety of ways to deal with the invasive species, with you know, cut off the source of them to enter, or to poison them, you know, or to allow hunting of said species. There's a variety of approaches that that states and the federal government have taken to protect the local environment so you don't get overrun, which highlights why a triple is an invasive species, which involves math. If one triple is producing an average litter of 10 every 12 hours over a period of three days, you can get over 1,771,561 triples. That's a lot of tribles. And if those landed on Earth, what do you do? I mean, uh I wrote a blog post about this many years ago, but can you eat a triple? Can you make triple slaughterhouses so you can solve world hunger? Or would that just be like really gross and just horrible uh in the process? And the problem probab it's probably a bad idea, because you can't ramp up when you're getting over a million of the little critters every three days. So lots of problems there.

Michael Skeen 4:41

Yeah, they say mostly first, so I don't know really what you would eat of them anyway.

Federation Rules On Dangerous Species

Joshua Gilliland 4:45

No, no, you don't. I mean, it's um uh but when they're introducing the trouble with triples, no, we we have some notes here that we can talk about. And Michael, what do you think are some of the legal consequences of bringing an invasive species onto a space station?

Michael Skeen 5:02

Well, this is actually an interesting for, you know, because usually we don't get into the laws too much in the Federation in Star Trek, but um, there is the Dangerous Species Act where if a dangerous species is brought onto the ship, it's punishable by 20 years in prison in a federal in a federation penal colony. Um, they don't really define what dangerous is, but Kirk at least seemed to interpret it enough that it would include troubles. And you know, I'm sure most people think dangerous is in this is a monster who that could eat you, but you know, trebles certainly are very invasive and would be very dangerous. And you know, and so yeah, I think their punishments would be very severe. And then also, I mean, it's just us living in California, you know, there's all sorts of restrictions, you know, like um section 2118 of the fish and game code has all sorts of restrictions about animals can be brought into California. I mean, the list is very exhaustive of you know, mammals, birds, fish, you know, you name it. Um, I think anybody who's driven into California was stopped at the border and was asked about you know what you're carrying. So it's yeah, it's because it's there's a lot of damage that can be could be done. And that's not even the scale of a treble, which is just insanely worse.

Joshua Gilliland 6:16

So there's exotic pets that are as dangerous as wild animals, and there are laws in place that order those animals destroyed, uh which would make sense in the case of a triple, if it could literally displace the population of the planet.

Michael Skeen 6:35

Right.

Joshua Gilliland 6:36

So because of how quickly they breed. Uh when you look at shows that like like The Walking Dead, where you have the zombie apocalypse taking place and the living get overwhelmed, it's like that, but with furry creatures that just keep growing and growing. Instead of snuff snuggling, they're gonna snuffocate the life out of the planet. Not not good.

Michael Skeen 7:02

Well, they'll snuggle you with love, they'll just eat your lunch.

The Poisoned Grain And Espionage

Joshua Gilliland 7:05

Yeah, exactly. There's there's that. At least they're not carnivorous triples, but the those did exist uh in one of the prodigy episodes where we had a Klingon scientist trying to deal with tribbles, and again, there was there are lots of triples episodes. So we have in the original episode, we have a spy, and they poison the grain that's on the K7 space station. Michael, what what what are your thoughts on that?

Michael Skeen 7:41

Well, it's you know, the grain, so um, yeah, the show gives us the perspective about the stakes of the grain, which is that it's meant for Sherman's planet, which right now is basically based on a treaty of uh the Federation Klingon War, that basically there's an agreement that whichever the Federation or the Klingon can cultivate it you know most effectively will get access to the planet. I'm presuming there's no sentient creatures that would object to being you know occupied, but that's probably another story. But anyway, um, so you know it's a very rough planet, and the only grain that can cultivate, um, that least the federation has access to is Quadraticale, which um tons of this stuff was shipped into the K-7 deep space probe or deep space station, and that's meant to basically go to the planet because it can actually cultivate on that planet, thus, you know, giving uh the Federation the chance to take control of the planet. And so, as far as like repercussions of that, so you know, who poisons it? We have you know Andre Darwin, who is an actually a Klingon who's been surgically altered to look like a human. And so, you know, he's clearly a spy, and so there's actually, you know, um, at least you know, looking, you know, analyzing analogizing it to the United States, you know, there's a lot of different you know, criminal codes, 18 USC sections 792 792 through 799, there's a bunch of different espionage crimes that you know that are that can that may potentially apply. Punishment can range from 10 years in prison to up to life imprisonment or even the death penalty. Um fortunately, um the Federation has mostly gotten rid of the death penalty, so that shouldn't be an issue. But otherwise, but at least you know, either 10 years to life imprisonment. And given that this is the a planet that you know they need the grain to cultivate, they need to basically develop the planet and they need to develop it before the Klingons, I think this would be have massive consequences, and which you would think. But and as it turns out though, he didn't really actually suffer too many consequences from the Federation. Um, because uh there was another episode, Tribbles and Tribulations, which Deep Space Nine, which we learned that um it's actually the Klingons that were far more severe to him than the Federation. I don't even know they did any jail time in the Federation, and so then the Klingons basically did um what they call a discommendation, which um for Klingons, they basically you basically get stripped of any you know status, you know, your your family loses honor, um, you get shunned by the Klingons. I mean, you basically don't even, you're not even considered like really a citizen, or you have very limited rights. In fact, they just refer to you as like that, as opposed to that, and um as opposed to you know, basically a fellow Klingon. And so there's no respect, and then it's not just you, it's your family, and your family's basically dishonored for seven generations. So very brutal. Um, you know, I'd imagine this is probably something you'll be covering also later on um in another podcast. Um, but this is a good you know, tease for for the topic.

Joshua Gilliland 10:47

Thank you, and and well done. Yeah, there's there are times watching Star Trek when you go, that's the only thing that happened? You just sp sent the spy back. Was this like some trade that took place? Like, I mean, did did did was there a um uh you know Gary Powers that had to walk across a bridge and you they sent the other spy back? Like what's what's going on?

Michael Skeen 11:13

Well remember, the Klingons don't take prisoners. Yes, so I don't know they had anybody to exchange, but um, you do wonder about that. That uh and and it's strange because you know, D Space Nine, you know, that episode takes place you know 100 years after Trouble Tribbles. So it'd be so hard to say, okay, 20 years in prison, and then you know, basically scratching a living, you know, throughout the galaxy, you know, because he doesn't really have a home.

Joshua Gilliland 11:40

Yeah, like that's well again, like jumping to Star Trek Academy, you know, the you know, you had Mama Mir be part of you know, killing a dude, you know, a Starfleet officer. If she gets sent to a rehabilitation colony, that doesn't sound like I mean, one rehabilitation, so they're they haven't given up on like saving somebody.

Michael Skeen 12:09

Yeah, but we know about rehabilitation and euphemisms.

Beaming Tribbles To Klingons

Joshua Gilliland 12:11

So yeah, we don't generally again the United States prison system gave up on that. I'm not passing judgment on that, but like we don't I mean, like it's it's now punitive of we're punishing you for for doing this as a deterrent from the rest of society to do similar things. I get the more evolved sense of justice that we're not just gonna execute the spy, like okay, good, but just sending them back so we could continue on that seems weird. Uh yeah.

Michael Skeen 12:47

I mean, you know, we don't really have that much background about how long he was, you know, an assistant to Barris, but he had to have been passing on information to the Klingons, and I'm sure the Klingons are the ones who ordered him, you know, sabotage that grain because you know, we need more time to get whatever, you know, to uh better cultivate the planet.

Joshua Gilliland 13:07

Yeah. However, it is cool they got the same actor that you know they that this episode of Deep Space Nine came out in '96, which was the 30th anniversary of track. So both Deep Space Nine and Voyager had anniversary episodes. And so the Voyager one was with Captain Sulu on the Excelsior. Cool. And this one was a instead of flashback, it's them going back in time. Cool. And Nito, again, good way to honor the past. Yeah.

Michael Skeen 13:42

No, that's one thing I always respect about Star Trek. If an actor is available uh to return to the role, um, they they get the actor, and you know, they unless they refuse and then they have to recast. But that's that's one thing I always respected about Star Trek is they kind of you know, it's like you joined a family.

Joshua Gilliland 14:00

Especially with Deep Space Nine, you had multiple Klingons from the original series that appeared in episodes. It's like well done guys, you know, they got their foreheads fixed after you know the illness passed. And it's like, good job.

Michael Skeen 14:15

Good job. I loved uh Morph's nine answer when explaining, you know, they asked him about what why the the Klingons appear differently back then.

Joshua Gilliland 14:23

We don't like discussing it. It's like because like they knew they had to address it because there are those who watched the motion picture and had the you know neck break of what those are Klingons, what why right? And you know, when they finally explain it in Enterprise, okay, you know, there was a disease, all right? Makes sense, and they get it trained uh uh treated, and people go back to having the big foreheads, so but there's there's more to Klingon craziness here. You have a note did the Mutual Admiration Society violate the Geneva Convention by transporting the triples to the Klingon ship? And wasn't that Scotty's doing?

Kirk’s Bad Assignment And Fallout

Michael Skeen 15:07

Well, uh it was Scotty, Spock, and McCoy all worked out a uh scheme to make it happen. Um, of course, you know, no no one wanted to take credit for doing it. Um I think Scotty was the one who actually technically transported the triples to the Klingon ship, but um I'm sure that uh Spock had the logistics and I'm you know McCoy you know added his value, you know, added value to it.

Cleaning Up Tribbles As Punishment

Joshua Gilliland 15:32

And uh again, that's from like a command discipline perspective, like none of them wanting to cop up, you know, it's it's the age old if you don't ask the question, I don't have to lie in a situation, it's like, oh no, like this is what did you boys do? Uh what paperwork am I gonna have to deal with? And it's like you know, like, did you transport them into space? Because that's wrong. And yeah, no, no, they transported them to the Klingon ship. So is that a war crime? I don't think so. But what's your thoughts on this?

Michael Skeen 16:17

Well, you know, the way I I kind of looked at it, um, you know, we've got stuff like the Geneva Protocol, which you know prevents basically using bioweapons. Um, and so you know, we learn about you know the reactions the triples have to Klingons and the reaction the Klingons have to triples. Like you see, you know, that you know, Klingon when he's in the bar, that pain look on his face when the Klingon is just brought close to it. I mean, it looked it's to me, I always think needles on a chalkboard is what that basically he's kind of his whole body's experiencing. And the trouble is similar too. It troubles like just like screeching and you know, giving a very you know inanimated at reaction to it when they're normally very passive. And so it's very clear the Klingons absolutely cannot stand these troubles. And the troubles, you know, and that's not even talking about the problems they present with the being an invasive species, it's just they really hate these things. And um, and at least you know, Spock and uh McCoy knew that absolutely because they were there when you know Kirk revealed, you know, who um about Andre Darwin him being a Klingon. So they knew it was something that they were absolutely hostile or very uncomfortable with, and it was something they also, you know, and so I think sending it over there. I mean, is it the same as using mustard gas? No, but it's something that would make the Klingons very uncomfortable, and they also knew the the risks they had by having a huge amount of Klingon, I sorry, having a bunch of Klingons on the ship, you know, get going through the air vents to get to whatever food replicators or whatever. However, the Klingons store their food, and so they knew there was massive risk and that there was potential to be for a lot of danger for um and so yeah, I I could see that would not go well with um you know with uh with the Klingon Empire, you know, and um so you know, I so since I guess nobody necessarily got killed, it's not you know, again, not the level of using, you know, you know, like again, mustard gas or some other really obvious, you know, or you know, but it's still it's it's it's putting everybody in a bad situation that's on that ship.

Joshua Gilliland 18:28

Yeah, it's to the Klingons, it might be like mustard gas. Like it's we have to think from their perspective.

Michael Skeen 18:35

They don't kill you, it's just making you maybe maybe make you wish you were.

Quarantine Failures And Later Tribbles

Joshua Gilliland 18:39

It'd be like like beaming in a bunch of snakes, like to a kindergarten class.

Michael Skeen 18:45

It's like Indiana Jones's house or whatever.

Joshua Gilliland 18:48

Yeah, it's like not appreciated on all kinds of levels. Uh, but you know, you raise an animal cruelty issue, and it it'd be like sending golden retrievers in to be bait dogs, you know, and people doing illegal dog fights for the golden retrievers to be ripped apart by vicious dogs bred for fighting, like that's not okay on any level. No. Uh, I mean, so again, there's an animal cruelty issue here that you can't weaponize triples because now the triples are the victim of what's happening. But this is late 1960s and it's meant to be funny.

Michael Skeen 19:32

So like the episode ends with you know Scotty making a pun saying, Oh, there'll be no triple at all, and then they all start laughing.

Joshua Gilliland 19:39

Yeah, which again, it's very rare for a a TOS episode to not end with like everyone smiling. There's like sitting on the edge of forever doesn't. Right. There there could be a couple others uh that that don't, but the majority of them end with you know something hopeful, like everyone's happy, like we all got away, everybody's okay, right, as opposed to you know, we just weaponize triples against our Cold War enemy. Right.

Michael Skeen 20:12

Um, speaking of which, I guess one thing that's kind of sort of a non-secondary. We were talking about kind of like you know, the oh, like the Mutual Admiration Society was acting and everything. This Star Trek episode for me um is a real unique one because it's it's one of the one of the rare times I can think of where a Starfleet officer just phones in the job. Because, you know, and basically the whole, you know, basically protect the quadrature to Kaylee, like Kirk, you know, is just I I think he's annoyed because either fall he feels like false pretenses brought him to K7, and then he's stuck, you know, basically safeguarding this grain. And you know, it's just like the last thing he wants to do. And but it's interesting though, because you know, in most Star Trek episodes, so when they get orders that they don't like, there's usually one of two things, like you know, like you know, measure of a man, where you know, episode where Riker basically had to defend um or basically claim you know prosecute the data was property as opposed to kind of like a sentient creature. You know, Riker said, you know, I don't like this, it's probably the last thing he wanted to do, but he did it to the best of his ability because that's what Starfleet does. It's like you do the job to the best of your ability, or by contrast, if you hate it so much, you just ignore the order and don't do what you're told to do and hope the consequences work out. Like first contact when the enterprise is protecting, you know, the uh the neutral zone at the Romulan border while the rest of the federation is engaged in the Borg. And Picard basically says, you know, well, as datas would say, to hell with those orders. And then Picard goes not only to join the battle, but take charge of the battle, and uh, which was good because then he helped them win, beat win. But again, it's just it's there's not that many times where I think, you know, where you have a Starfleet officer saying, Okay, I'm gonna do a half assed job here and just not really work the problem.

Joshua Gilliland 21:57

Yeah, I think Kirk didn't like being lied to. And when you had middle management trying to boss them around, that doesn't play well. For it's like this is not what the calling 911 is for. So he he gets called to K7 with like, this isn't an emergency, you're calling me because of this. Right, right. We're supposed to stop wars, we're supposed to save people. And now I'm playing, you know, clerical attache because you've made this weird mess and want me to fix it for you.

Michael Skeen 22:31

Yeah, I mean, he even had an admiral call him up and say, Do your job.

Joshua Gilliland 22:35

Yeah, which would be like, seriously? Like, I mean, like, did he go screaming the pillow after that? I mean, because like what would um I mean what's nice about TOS, you do have Kirk be like vulnerable, like it's not in front of the entire crew, right to his quarters and like might just talk to one person. It's it's Spock, it's McCoy, sometimes Rand, and like with you know the pressure of the job. But this is like, are you kidding me? Like, I have to deal with this because like I'm used to getting shot at. Like, this is not risk is our business to I need to make sure the green's okay. Thanks.

Michael Skeen 23:21

Right, right. Uh, but again, they do uncover spy ring and you know nefarious conduct, so yeah, yeah, and you know, I mean, really, trebles save the day by getting killed by the poison quadraticale. So thank you for your sacrifice.

Joshua Gilliland 23:37

Yeah, it's uh I'm not sure how you bury all of them, but yeah, that that's an issue, uh, which also raises another again. We're now dealing with a form of dangerous warfare of we're gonna go poison crops. Again, not not good there. Yeah, but the one of the follow-up animated series from the mid-70s, we've we see them serial jones again, and the Klingons develop a creature to eat triple the Gloomer, right? Gloomer, I'm not sure the pronunciation, it's been a while since I've seen that uh episode.

Michael Skeen 24:22

I thought it was glomer, but okay, cool. But yeah, you say gloomer, I say glomer, you know.

Joshua Gilliland 24:28

But it raises the issue. So you made another animal to eat the invasive species. What happens to the other animal? Like, do if you venture near them to die when the threat's gone, okay, that's still messed up. But I mean, like, is that any different than using a poison? I would say it is because you're now weaponizing another animal that you bred specifically for this. So I mean, that's uncomfortable and weird. Yeah.

Michael Skeen 25:00

If you're in another interesting thing, we're talking about you know, happen things that are happening, you know, the consequences of actions and everything. And so, you know, them beaming the trebles, the Klingon ship, that had disastrous results for the trebles, because then at that point the Klingons basically went and essentially hunted down the treble planet, wiped that out, and basically killed all trebles that they could find. And so by the time we're at the you know, a hundred years later, they basically didn't exist anymore.

Joshua Gilliland 25:32

Yeah, which would be again, you had Odo making function.

Michael Skeen 25:36

Well, that's got an asterisk to it, but um anyway.

Joshua Gilliland 25:38

Yeah, yeah, making fun of the great Tribble hunt.

Michael Skeen 25:41

Right.

Joshua Gilliland 25:42

Uh, there there was the short track episode about the trouble with Edward, where you had, you know, it's basically tribals are part of the high breeding was from human experimentation, and you have uh you lose a ship and a very dumb Starfleet officer. Uh uh like there are those who've complained about that episode, and I think rightly so, because you know, the captain who is court-martialed, because that's what happens when you lose a ship. You know, she says that Lieutenant Edward, or whatever you know his last name was, was an idiot. Like that's not very trek-like. Uh but you know, and then there were humorous instances of you know, people backing away with phaser rifles, shooting tribles as they multiply. Uh again, so many problems with uh with that invasive species.

Michael Skeen 26:43

Right. Well, don't forget, you know, Cyreno Joes is apparently quite the Renaissance man because he also did genetic manipulation of tribles, you know, to basically, which essentially like they ate and um this isn't the animated series, they uh they ate and then they just essentially just kept growing and growing and growing and growing and growing. And it turns out it was actually this gigantic, you know, treble colony waiting to explode into action, which you know, much to the Klingon's regret, they find out when they try and shoot one.

Joshua Gilliland 27:12

Yeah. Um so Cyril Jones gets sentenced to 17.9 years for cleaning up triples, which raises is that cruel and unusual punishment? Your thoughts, then I'll go.

Michael Skeen 27:29

Well, um, yeah, well, I I guess there's a couple I have a couple thoughts about that. Um so first off, you know, I think that I get the poetic justice in him literally having to clean up his mess. Um, that's you know, there's a certain amount of, you know, like I say, you can certainly appreciate that. On the other hand, there's a lot of problems with um, you know, with that that type of you know punishment. Um the first one being is so you wouldn't know it from the episode because special effects were expensive, but K7 is actually a pretty busy port, and they have ships coming in and out. And we know how much everybody other than Klingons love trebles, and how many tribles you think will basically hop on different ships that come in, and as they all leave, we're basically just doing trible infestations across the entire galaxy. So not such a great idea from that perspective. Um, the other thing was was that I mean, it was interesting because I guess Kirk basically was trying to do this as kind of a side hustle side deal, where basically they were going to impound Cyrano Jones' ship until the troubles were all cleared out, and I guess then they wouldn't prosecute him. And um, but an interesting thing with that is I'd imagine the Federation probably has some amount of statute of limitations, which you know in the US is usually like three, four years for a lot of crimes. And um so say he spends three years cleaning up and then realize, well, you can't prosecute me now, I'm out of here. Um unless the triples he got locked out. What's up?

Joshua Gilliland 29:01

Unless the triples keep breathing breeding, which means that the problem's ongoing.

Michael Skeen 29:05

Right, right. Yeah, and I don't know if Spock's math is that is 100% accurate about 17.9 years, but um yeah, I do love the you know that, but then uh I guess say the glomer comes around, and so that I guess clears out all the tribbles, so he's able to escape.

Joshua Gilliland 29:23

It's like do you vent a space? I mean, do you try to do spay and neuter? Like, what's what's the play here? Because again, but if it's an invasive species, you can destroy an invasive species even if it's adorable. And normally invasive species aren't cute and snugly, you know, it's a zebra mussel or a python, and like and those aren't known. I mean, you don't want to cuddle with the python for uh numerous reasons, but yeah, it's it's uh I understand remediating them through poison uh or disintegration. Um venting to space probably is gonna be a hazard to navigation if you have a few million triple bodies floating in the vacuum. Uh or you decide to destroy the space station in order to preserve everybody else.

Michael Skeen 30:19

Yeah, send it into the sun.

Joshua Gilliland 30:21

Yeah, it's like that's the only way. We'll build another one. So that'd be a dark ending. Yeah, this enterprise towing the space station to a nearby star. Sorry, yeah. We're only gonna beam people out, filter out triples, and then borrow from another franchise, nuke it from orbit's the only way to be sure. Again, again, it's an invasive species. So, like again, those ones aren't snuggly, they're explosive. And and here you go.

Michael Skeen 30:52

So the one thing it was, yeah, it was interesting. I know it's uh it that uh with this also is it's kind of funny that they have like no quarantine protocols or anything when the species nobody nobody knows anything about comes on board. I mean, either comes into the K7 spaceport and then brought on to the enterprise. Um, like the McCoy knows nothing about the triples, and other than oh, well, these are kind of cute, and you know, and uh there's like no protocols to like see is there a problem with having bringing these things on board? I mean, like uh like if my wife and I wanted to relocate to Hawaii, um, our dogs would have to be quarantined for up to 120 days.

Joshua Gilliland 31:31

And that's you know, yeah, it's like good luck bringing a dog to Australia, like they're just not the UK, yeah. Just know it's it's like that's gonna be a problem on a whole bunch of levels of FIDO's not gonna see you for four months, so yeah, good stuff there. Uh my word. So uh lots lots there. So we do see triples a few other times, and they clearly had to have deal dealt with the uh breeding issue. So we see a triple in search for Spock, and when the you know crew of the enterprise re returns in the botany bay, it's not to save Earth from a triple infestation, it's to save the earth from a probe. So like they're not breeding. And Star Trek Generations, one of the escaping children, has a triple. And when the Farragut rescues the crew of the Enterprise D, it's not like they were barbecuing tribles to survive, like they like the the triple was not multiplying, so good there. Um so clearly they they figure it out, so the cute little fuzzballs don't yeah.

Michael Skeen 32:56

Well, they also have uh treble shows up in Star Trek in the darkness as well.

Joshua Gilliland 33:01

Oh my, yes, yes, for medical experimentation, which is figured out the magic blood, you know, um save the day. Yeah, uh, yeah, they don't know qualms about medical experimentation. So we'll we'll use the triple as a guinea pig and see what happens when we inject uh genetically altered blood into it from a human being. What could go wrong? So is there anything else troubling about tribles that we should address, Michael?

Michael Skeen 33:34

Um, I don't know if we want to talk about so the interesting thing with the DS9 Deep Space Nine episode. So um at that point, Tribbles are theoretically near extinct, and then um guess what return from the past with uh the Defiant when they return to Deep Space Nine? A bunch of Tribbles. We go to Quarks and they're overrun with tribles. And you know, there's they've so they've got that problem to deal with, which I don't think they ever actually addressed that. Um I think it was I know it was like you know, it was most mostly meant for a laugh, but I don't think I don't recall if they ever addressed that. Um how they got what how they dealt with them. It's better that we've got the whole reason this is brought up is because you know they're being, you know, basically the time variance authority equivalent essentially is grilling Cisco about what happened, and um he kind of forgets to tell them that uh there's no trouble, the triples came back, and that basically the species have been repopulated, essentially.

Joshua Gilliland 34:37

I I mean there were still again generations, is about it was slightly before that, so it's not like tribles were we saw one, like they might be rare pets then, but it's probably better that we don't know what happened to the triples if they just asked Wharf to handle the problem.

Michael Skeen 34:57

Uh yeah, um, because there is precedent about Tribbles on a space station not being a good idea.

Joshua Gilliland 35:05

That they just Mr. Wharf, take care of it and like just never discuss it again. Yeah, gladly sir. Not going in the logbook. We're just gonna let Wharf work this out for everybody. Yeah, uh, owe him a solid. Or do they come up with something less, you know, horrific of um drop off at some planet or try to again spay all of them.

Michael Skeen 35:34

Yeah, they're just load them all up into a ship and send it through the wormhole and just figure it's somebody else's problem.

Joshua Gilliland 35:39

Yeah, right to the Dominion. Yeah, what could go wrong? So yeah, it's there's all kinds of weird, creepy problems with that. But again, they've appeared multiple times, you know. Most recently they were they were in Prodigy. I don't know if they appeared in Discovery at all. Uh and I don't think they've been in Academy unless there was a really subtle reference I missed.

Michael Skeen 36:06

But yeah, I didn't notice it, I didn't see it in Strange New Worlds either.

Joshua Gilliland 36:10

Yeah, because that would be too early. So like you can't unless Spock didn't see it. I mean, like, that's uh that'd be weird. Um, maybe there was something in Discovery where there was one, and like if a changeling appeared in there, maybe maybe there was a triple someplace on one of the planets in the background scene. I don't know. Uh but again, lots of lots of ways triples can be troubling. Well, everyone, uh, thank you for tuning in. We'll be back for more track coverage because there's a lot more track to discuss. So, everyone, wherever you are, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay geeky. Take care, everyone. Take care.